|
|
Post by thelurker on Jan 29, 2008 13:23:11 GMT -5
Dean - If you read the post you were refering to it had the answer you were looking for. I am simply staying on the training side because along the same theory as Chief Constantine you will still need to grab equipment off of everyone else's truck. But since you missed it WE TAKE THE SQUAD (even though we are no one's RIT) because it is heavily equipped with some special type equipment we may need to secure the area and free a downed firefighter. I generally send the SQUAD to anywhere that a chief has requested it for a special purpose. If no request was made we send 21 to leave the SQ in town. My bad, I missed where you said you would take the squad. It is at the top of page 2. |
|
1900
Forum Captain
Posts: 103
|
Post by 1900 on Jan 29, 2008 16:46:13 GMT -5
We take the Rescue Engine for several reasons...because it has the room for the equipment, it has a wide variety of equipment and we do not have enough money to put duplicate equipment on both pieces...
When I say a wide variety of equipment...I am saying normal RIT and Engine Co tools, various saws, hydraulic tools, air tools, electric tools and battery operated tools...gas tools dont run so good in oxygen deficient atomospheres..air bags...long cribbing..again who knows what your gonna need...
As for what piece everyone should bring...a ladder would be nice for the main, but like already stated how often will you get close enough to use it...but hopefully there will be one on scene to utilize its ground ladders...I like the Rescue/Engine or Squad more variety of equipment...but I think the RIT taskforce has found a place...
Truthfully your company must train with THEIR OWN COMPANIES RIT equipment to see how things work, see how they will work in a MAYDAY situation and if it will work...and once you have done this you will know what tools you will need to get you started. Through our training a RIT Engine would carry the necesary equip, but as a security blanket we like our Rescue Engine to have the extra toys.
As for the advertising for RIT, Im not sure if we do this or not...We originally got into RIT to be able to handle any situation given to us and then I think through our training people began to put faith in us...We hate standing around, but we hate packing 5" too...but everyone has a job and it has to be done...I know alot of times we arrive ahead of most and get detailed something else.?
|
|
|
|
Post by shader101 on Jan 30, 2008 14:00:19 GMT -5
guess no one will know how well the rit you get is, till we need them, and then hopefully certified or not they preform the job as needed, me i pray we never get to that point
|
|
|
|
Post by firstin312 on Feb 1, 2008 19:16:55 GMT -5
If I am correct it asked what do we take to a RIT call. So is it so far off to answer that question with the fact we would like to take qualified personnel on the engine? Moorestown takes an engine to it's RIT calls. I strongly feel that no matter what piece of equipment you take you can never have enough there to work with. Chief Wylie is correct in that many Dept's. think that they can run a RIT call because they pass FF1. I hope I never have to go into service at any call for a downed FF, so if I do have an engine, squad or truck, I want a qualified team with me , guys I can trust my life with and the life of the downed FF. The laid back attitude of RIT teams and the Dept's. responding to them can come back and bite them real quick.
B/C needs to start working on a better way of doing RIT if that means making sure that Dept's. have the qualified members on the engines, etc. Maybe we need to respond with a team knowing they are qualified, not just to fill the seat. As an officer we need to start telling guys they cannot get on the engine, truck, squad whatever, because they have no clue of what to do! Unfortunately we cannot make these guys go to the class, and if we need to pass up on a RIT call because we don't have the qualified people on board then so be it. We have talked about this in Moorestown because of a recent RIT call when it had to many younger guys on it, so we started to push them with going to ESTC for RIT classes. Will it work I hope so, but the next time we get called out to a RIT if the guys behind are not the ones who can make a split second decision that can save my life, his or a downed FF I don't want him!
Maybe we can pull some guys at the scene and create a better RIT team, to make it a more qualified team, I don't know but it needs to be talked about, because I want to go in and save a FF not go in and worry if I am going to need a RIT also!
|
|
|
|
Post by papacheese on Feb 1, 2008 22:54:59 GMT -5
"Wylie is correct in that many Dept's. think that they can run a RIT call because they pass FF1."
I assume you meant to type "Chief Johnson", didn't you, Firefighter Clifford?
|
|
|
|
Post by FirstDue312 on Feb 2, 2008 3:05:25 GMT -5
That's Captain Booth, Chief Bickmore, not I
|
|
|
|
Post by papacheese on Feb 2, 2008 5:29:50 GMT -5
My bad....your handles are so damn close....Captain?  |
|
|
|
Post by FirstDue312 on Feb 3, 2008 2:31:04 GMT -5
As an officer we need to start telling guys they cannot get on the engine, truck, squad whatever, because they have no clue of what to do! Unfortunately we cannot make these guys go to the class, and if we need to pass up on a RIT call because we don't have the qualified people on board then so be it. We have talked about this in Moorestown because of a recent RIT call when it had to many younger guys on it, so we started to push them with going to ESTC for RIT classes. Being one of the young buck's on that call Cap, would you advocate taking younger guys to learn for the "experience" as others have suggested. I'm not saying bring a school bus, but like 1 or 2 guys? Also, how many "older" guys have actually been on a working RIT to know exactly what it is going to take. Unfortunately, if a firefighter ever goes down, as Chief Constantine pointed out, its going to take AT LEAST 22 firefighters to even begin to help him/her. Thats at least 4 fully staffed RIT crews. The likelihood that all have taken that class, paid or volley, is slim to none. |
|
|
|
Post by firstin312 on Feb 3, 2008 14:33:02 GMT -5
FF Clifford, that is a tough one because we want a crew that has the experience to handle any RIT calls, for the just in case factor. Would I be against taking a younger FF with me, and yes I would say just one, that is a possibility if it is someone I know is going to do what he or she is told to do and when they are told to do it. We want the younger FF'S to get the experience and to handle these calls in the future, so yes if he or she has shown the initiative by going to the appropriate classes, showing the Officers they are working towards the future and willing to work at it. Because it comes down to wanting to learn and not just acting the part, many FF'S will play a roll and we all know what they are doing, so get involved, go the class and read up on anything new and bring back to the other younger FFS as well as the Officers, we always want to learn new things as well...
|
|
|
|
Post by smthborenzzle on Feb 3, 2008 15:59:13 GMT -5
I might be interpreting your statement wrong but it will always take 22 firefighters to remove a downed firefighter is incorrect. It may be a simple as two RIT members going in and leading a disoriented member out. It could be as complicated as a complete collapse and 50 guys digging to remove them. The number 22 came from the Southwest Supermarket fire in Phoenix. That is what it took to remove the firefighter from THIS situation. There could be 5 RITS in a particular situation and it still wouldn't be enough. It is completely depends on the situation. I agree with the mulit-RIT philosophy but anyone on the fireground could end up assisting with the FF rescue. That is why it is important that all FF's get the training, inexperienced and seasoned.
|
|
|
|
Post by WebBoss on Feb 3, 2008 16:59:38 GMT -5
I might be interpreting your statement wrong but it will always take 22 firefighters to remove a downed firefighter is incorrect. It may be a simple as two RIT members going in and leading a disoriented member out. It could be as complicated as a complete collapse and 50 guys digging to remove them. The number 22 came from the Southwest Supermarket fire in Phoenix. That is what it took to remove the firefighter from THIS situation. There could be 5 RITS in a particular situation and it still wouldn't be enough. It is completely depends on the situation. I agree with the mulit-RIT philosophy but anyone on the fireground could end up assisting with the FF rescue. That is why it is important that all FF's get the training, inexperienced and seasoned. This is what I was saying. Thank you for putting it into much better, and fewer, words then I was using. I absolutely HATE the fact that everyone is stuck on one Pheonix event, and all of a sudden we need the magic number of "22" to be propery staffed for RIT. That's all great and everything, but since we wanted to argue on whether or not there were enough Medic units to standby at a working fire, I seriously doubt that we can afford "22" extra firefighters to stand around and watch a fire too. Maybe we need a town like Walawala Washington or something to do an excersise and prove that it only took a 4 man RIT to rescue one firefighter from an event, then maybe we can back down to the original, and much more realaistic original intent of Burlington County RIT. Oh wait, we only except gospel from departments with big names such as Pheonix. 22... That's more then what's required on a 1st alarm fire. If we keep going, we're gonna have 2 in and 2 out expanding to RIT coverage per firefighter at a 1 to 1 ratio. |
|
|
|
Post by bigblack on Feb 3, 2008 17:01:09 GMT -5
I was lucky enough to be able to take a RIT course that the Camden City Fire Department put on w/ the Gloucester City Fire Department....This course came about because camden city uses mutual aid ladder companies as RIT teams when there is a lare job in the city... my former dept was selected to be one of the mutual aid ladder compaines that would be used....this course was at a vacant wharehouse in gloucester city.....it took my dept 24 members to remove the downed fireman approx 17 feet...we were even afforded the opportunity to see the layout of the bldg b4 the drill...so even with the availability of seeing what were had to deal with b4 hand its still took 24 men and approx 35 minutes....just think we have no idea of the layout or anything dealing with the bldg b4 hand think how much harder it will be then...this drill showed us that no matter what ur level of expierence in the fire service u could be called upon to perform RIT work...becuase of the simple fact that it will take so many people to perform the rescue...
|
|
|
|
Post by WebBoss on Feb 3, 2008 17:12:10 GMT -5
I was lucky enough to be able to take a RIT course that the Camden City Fire Department put on w/ the Gloucester City Fire Department....This course came about because camden city uses mutual aid ladder companies as RIT teams when there is a lare job in the city... my former dept was selected to be one of the mutual aid ladder compaines that would be used....this course was at a vacant wharehouse in gloucester city.....it took my dept 24 members to remove the downed fireman approx 17 feet...we were even afforded the opportunity to see the layout of the bldg b4 the drill...so even with the availability of seeing what were had to deal with b4 hand its still took 24 men and approx 35 minutes....just think we have no idea of the layout or anything dealing with the bldg b4 hand think how much harder it will be then...this drill showed us that no matter what ur level of expierence in the fire service u could be called upon to perform RIT work...becuase of the simple fact that it will take so many people to perform the rescue... EOD, I agree whole heartedly (let me finish), with what you are explaining from this excersise. In essence, I'm beginning to think that we all may need to reconsider how we approach the RIT portion of fire responses. We all agree that standards or no, RIT is a very important part of the working structure fire response. "Typical" bread and butter SFD fires can problably be easily served by 1 or 2; 4 person RITs. Short of a major structural compromise of the structure, 4 to 8 people SHOULD be able to rescue a firefighter. Now, when we get into the more complex incidents, I whole heartedly agree that we need to seriously beef up the RIT compliment and be better prepared for the proverbial "Shit Hitting the Fan." Maybe this is where the RIT-Taskforce concept can come into play. |
|
|
|
Post by bigblack on Feb 3, 2008 17:15:46 GMT -5
Sean I think we were both typing at the same time and my post cut in between ur's.....I was just giving an example of my own personal expierence instead of just using the phoenix example, not saying I agree with it. I feel more along the lines of what u and other people have said in previous posts.
|
|
|
|
Post by smthborenzzle on Feb 3, 2008 23:27:51 GMT -5
I agree with what you are saying EOD. I have also done some similar exercies. Any type of complication to the rescue is gonna require substantialy more manpower. My main point I guess is that there is no magic number. We have to realize that guys standing in manpower are a resource also. Just because they didn't come on the RIT truck or have the RIT airpack cover doesn't mean they aren't available when sh*t hits the fan. They can supplement the RIT's already on location. That is why its important that all FF's have the RIT training. Everyone should be mentally ready to go into action.
|
|
|
|
Post by FirstDue312 on Feb 4, 2008 3:16:35 GMT -5
I am personally a big advocate for a big RIT response and praise Chief Constantine and the MFD policy makers that be (not just because I'm from Moorestown) for their forethought and PRO(not re-)action in bringing in 3 RIT companies for a SFD All Hands job. Sure 22 may not be THE magic number (I was just using an example), but erring on the side of caution is something we need to start doing as a whole, so we can Live Another Day as Chief Bickmore brings up. Sure, it may be annoying standing around with that seemingly heavier and heavier Air Pak on your back, or watching everyone else do the "fun stuff". As "fun" as firefighting may be, its not what we're there for. And before we protect anyone else's life or property, we have to protect our own.
|
|
|
|
Post by papacheese on Feb 4, 2008 5:54:29 GMT -5
Like most things, the Phoenix "22" has to be taken in context and not as Gospel...prior to them running this experiment, RIT was still somewhat in it's infancy and there were a lot of myths floating around that needed to be either proved or dispelled...their important benchmarking was but one step in the RIT evolution from grabbing ANY four firefighters to a more serious approach. No doubt, RIT will look just as different ten years from now.
In the end, it's all about risk management...you KNOW you have a potentially dangerous situation brewing; one RIT or three, the real question is: how lucky do you feel today? Can you possibly know all the thing you MUST know in order to make an intelligent decision? Or do we let our egos interfere with the logic process? I'll never complain if we're dispatched for RIT and recalled enroute...to me, the benefit far outweights the risks.
[glow=red,2,300]HELP STAMP OUT NTS.....THINK![/glow]
|
|
|
|
Post by shader101 on Feb 8, 2008 22:05:15 GMT -5
since rit is a saftey function , why not let the saftey officer or officers determine the amount needed, it can grow as the needs arise or operations change, interior to exterior ect. take what phonix ,la,fdny, boston phila ect does learn from it, adapt it to YOUR needs, they dont operate here you do!
|
|
