RIT- ENG, TK, OR SQ - Why

[riverlinetk]

What piece of apparatus does your station take as the RIT? if you only have one engine then it's understandable as to why you do what you do. Make the case as to why you think, out of these three, what should be taken and why. Is it situation or always the same?

[riverlinetk]

I'll get this one started. My personal preference is a special service (tk or squad). From my experiences I have been exposed to the truck as the RIT. I think that the truck provides more of the tools and service necessary for RIT ops. Saws, TIC, ladders, FE ops, and more specialized equipment that can be utilized to make the fire building more "escape friendly" to all of us. Obviously, as any good RIT you should have your own hand line in case you are deployed into bad conditions. The line should NOT be off of the first in pumper but separate if possible. This will allow for you to still be able to operate should the initial pumper take a shit. (this could also be why you have been activated). Having the capacity of the main on your appratus also provides the fg command another viable opportunity to get a ladder pipe in service if necessary or a good means of accessing upper floors/roof of the structure. When we bring an engine on a RIT we are relying heavily on apparatus position to be able to pull larger ladders of of other truck companies (if they are there and the ladder beds not blocked). With an engine you and up using a lot of other equipment from other places, with the truck or squad you bring a lot of your own stuff and know its capacities/ops. However, an engine does always have it's place.

My order- truck, squad, engine

[windtunnel]

in the 31 we take our engine to all rit calls...it has all the equipment necessary for the rit company on it....as for the ladders most of the times there is going to be a truck in the front yard of the fire building so ladders are accesible through another truck company.....

[hp4l]

In Cinn City and Mo Town we use engines as our RIT. When I was in Medford, we used the rescue. The engine works if you have the proper tools on it. We load everything in a stokes basket and go to the scene. You should try to take ladders off closer units if possible. The only thing I have against a truck company as a RIT in this county is that too often the truck company that's responding in as a RIT may be the first due truck company. Now they are asked to be the truck company and we continue to wait for a RIT crew. I think any type of apparatus can be utilized as a RIT. The most important part is the crew on the truck. Are they capable of performing RIT? I think as long as you have the right crew and the right tools with you, then it doesn't matter what you come on.

[gotwork]

My vote is any piece of aparatus that has the properly trained personnel on it. If you do RIT work you will have the equipment, but there are only a few companies that train hard on what it takes to be a good RIT company. Not to mention by the time the RIT arrives the piece will not be anywhere near the fire building. For me it is all about the people more than the ride!

[riverlinetk]

wylie,

I do complete agree with the properly trained personnel. However, I would hope that any company responding on a rit call has competent and peropely trained people on it. If you have six guys at the station but two are 80 yrs old and the other four are 18 years old then the question becomes..... do you respond b/c you have a crew or not respond b/c you don't really have a "rit" crew per se? I'd say stay in the station, if shit hits the fan you won't do anyone the services necessary. Not a knock on the older or very young guys, but the gist is to have the "seasoned" guys with the experience AND training to do the job. About which piece, personally i'm still leaning w/ tk/sq. b/c it's still tough to rely on other companies tools and equipment. If you bring it, you know what you have. Not at all saying i'm right, just my opinion.

[voyager9]

What apparatus is really irrelevant. For RIT applications it's just a cart for the trained people and their gear. It could be Billy-Bob's pickup as long as 5-6 guys and their stuff fits.

Which piece we talk was a matter of debate for a while. Unfortunately at the station no one piece (Tower, Rescue, Engine) has everything you'd want on RIT. Each company would take the piece that made sense for them. Right now our SOG is to take the Engine (to keep the specialty pieces (tower/rescue) in town. We have to either grab someone else's stokes basket or use a backboard/ladder when carrying the RIT gear.

[thelurker]

riverlinetk said:

My order- truck, squad, engine

So now you only want riverton and westampton to run all the rit calls in the county?

[FirstDue312]

voyager9 said:

What apparatus is really irrelevant. For RIT applications it's just a cart for the trained people and their gear. It could be Billy-Bob's pickup as long as 5-6 guys and their stuff fits.

Gotta agree with Voyager here. What's most important is getting any piece of apparatus out of the door. Hopefully if there are RIT's being dispatched to a confirmed fire, there will be a whole plethora of specialized pieces there. That being said, with whatever apparatus a station decides to take, whatever shortcomings it might have, should be fulfilled by apparatus already on scene.

[WebBoss]

I have actually been putting a bit of thought into this one…

Here in Burlington County, it is really impossible to say what rig brings the RIT. Thanks to the new county policies, (Sorry Dave) we have ladder trucks running around with just a (meaning 1) saw, as well as so-called “Rescue-Engines” and Rescues running around as rescues when they’re nothing more then glorified door-pop queens. So what’s it matter? To compound the issue even more, half the companies in our county that run as “RIT” companies, have next to no experience with working fires, except being invited to away games as RIT. We can all have class after class, but unless you have the experience and street smarts to back it up, those certificates aren’t going to do a damn bit of good but certify you to get yourself into a position that could get you seriously injured if not worse.

So what does it matter? Ask yourself very seriously. Have I been in a handful of working jobs? Have I learned from my experiences at these jobs? Do I have the smarts to get myself out of an Oh-Shit situation, let alone someone else? Would I want my life depending on my own abilities? If you cannot fully and easily answer YES to any of these questions, YOU HAVE NO BUISNESS PRETENDING TO BE ON A RIT!

Now, to answer Riverline’s question, I would prefer a Rescue-Rescue (one for real rescues, not just run of the mill MVAs). I want a rescue with all the tools and toys to cut, push, pull, pinch, crunch, demolish, and destroy anything and everything that is blocking my path towards getting my brother or sister firefighter out of harms way. I’m sure on the normal house fire response, there will be more then enough ladders and hand lines to cover those basis’s, but I want the big-boy tools on scene so that the RIT is more then prepared when the shit hits the fan.

Is your Rescue or Rescue Engine prepared to handle something along the lines of a floor falling in on a brother? NO??? Then you’re just a want to be rescue.

Hydraulic tools don’t make rescues.
Certificates don’t make firefighters.
Zip Code numbers don’t make you officers.

Thank you for allowing me to blow the dust off my soap box.

[ENG27SQ]

I personally feel that any unit can be established as a RIT unit if it carries the RIGHT equipment. But also it needs to have certified RIT firefighters. Not just RIT Orientation certified..I'm talking RIT Operations at the MINIMUM. You shouldn't be responding as a specialty unit if you don't carry the right stuff or your personnel isn't properly trained.

What good is a unit coming in for RIT if none of the personnel aboard are trained in RIT. Sure it's to save one of our own god forbid but if they have no clue what to do what good are they than yard breathers?

[hp4l]

admin said:

Hydraulic tools don’t make rescues.
Certificates don’t make firefighters.
Zip Code numbers don’t make you officers.

Well said.

[gotwork]

To be honest with you, RIT personnel need to be more than just RIT ops. They need structural collapse training, Building construction training, equipment training, and the list continues. This is what makes the difference between RIT companies and firefighters/companies that just have certs and tools.

[wellingcountry]

I have read every post on hear carefully and agree 100% no matter what truck you bring there need to be a crew the is trained and competent enough to handle the task thrown at them. I have been through everyone of the RIT class that are offered at the ESTC and even had the opportunity along with another firefighter to run a RIT Drill at the ESTC with our department and unfortunately due to the weather of 100+ and high humidity that day we where unable to do everything but what very little we did I think It was a great eye opener for everyone and since then several members have gone and taken further RIT classes. I did however had an older member come up to me and tell me that he is just as good as a RIT Ops certified person (hes only awareness) and that there is nothing that a class can teach him that he hasn't learned in 20 yrs of firefighting. With that said sorry for being long winded I believe that every department should set an SOG for the minimum quals you should be as well as how many x number of drills you should attend in order to just ride the truck on the RIT truck. Not to say if theres and empty seat and awareness person can't fill the seat but everyone higher comes first. With an SOG like this I believe it will encourage members to become higher trained and want to take the class.
I agree with Web boss also no classes don't make you RIT but you have to give and take a little bit here with fires becoming less and less would you rather have someone with no training at all in RIT or someone who has training and maybe has only seen one or two fires in there career. I'm calling some training. As for the original question when I first joined my department used our mini pumper as the RIT after taking some training and bringing it back to the chief it was changed to our engine and now has been changed to our Quint.

[ENG27SQ]

gotwork said:

To be honest with you, RIT personnel need to be more than just RIT ops. They need structural collapse training, Building construction training, equipment training, and the list continues. This is what makes the difference between RIT companies and firefighters/companies that just have certs and tools.

That's what I was trying to point towards Chief. Requirement to be a RIT company should be the proper equipment and personnel that has the proper training. As you said, RIT Ops isn't enough. That's just the beginning. Like you said, structural collapse,building construction. They need to know what they are getting into and need to be ready for anything, and everything.

[wellingcountry]

fire292rescue said:

gotwork said:

To be honest with you, RIT personnel need to be more than just RIT ops. They need structural collapse training, Building construction training, equipment training, and the list continues. This is what makes the difference between RIT companies and firefighters/companies that just have certs and tools.

Thats a very good point I did not think about that but your right they should have those I personally have taken building const. and I am working on Structural collapse. But they do play a very important role and know what you can and can not cut as well as how the building is going to act in fire conditions.

[riverlinetk]

I think I started this thread with the notion that we are already taking with us a full crew of QUALIFIED RIT personnel. And no, (thanks dean) i'm not trying to get the companies I run with more places!! Take you guys for example, engine201 goes a long distance for RIT on some calls, but it gives those companies using them the comfort of knowing they will be getting a staffed truck with qualified personnel (hopefully). That's a lot more than many of us can say on any given day at any given time. We all know we have those times where we are very light on staffing let alone the type of personnel around. Is anyone disciplined enough to say we aren't going on X call because we shouldn't?? I doubt it, me included.

This thread was started, b/c no matter what anyone can say if you bring your own toys you know how to play already. Companies carry different types of everything out there. While the principles are the same it's still not your own stuff. The last RIT class I did was in PG. The final eval was an auto shop on fire with a ff down inside. We had to rescue him from under a car that had slipped off of a lift and his leg was pinned. We ended up having to use air bags to do the lift and remove him. Far fetched? maybe. Possible? certainly. I know we can't plan for every situation, but i was getting more into why we all take what piece of apparatus for what reasons........? Obviously if you carry everything possible on your engine or other piece your good to go, but I think some companies are limited in their equipment on their "RIT truck".

[thelurker]

Ok let me get in line.......

"WHACK"

ok now I got to beat the dead horse too....

You guys mean to say that our performance at fires, no matter what role, goes back to training? WOW Revolutionary.

I think the thread asks what we take to the RIT and why, not if you are a trained structural engineer or not.

WHAT FIRE TRUCK TO YOU RIDE WHEN THE PAGER SAYS RIT XXX, AND WHY DOES YOUR DEPT USE THAT TRUCK??

[rp42]

If we are assuming that the rig responding is full of qualified people, then I don't think it matters what you take as long as it has the proper equipment. Not every town can afford or justify a truck company or heavy rescue. My station takes the Quint when we are a rit team, other towns only have engines. May this why we should have rit taskforces. Have an engine, truck, rescue, and EMS. Every appartus can't carry every tool need, but a taskforce of them could.

[WebBoss]

rp42 said:

If we are assuming that the rig responding is full of qualified people, then I don't think it matters what you take as long as it has the proper equipment. Not every town can afford or justify a truck company or heavy rescue. My station takes the Quint when we are a rit team, other towns only have engines. May this why we should have rit taskforces. Have an engine, truck, rescue, and EMS. Every appartus can't carry every tool need, but a taskforce of them could.

RIT Taskforce... What a novel idea!