Near Misses in Burlington County

[opsoverkill]

I start this thread we great hesitation. But, since this site has been more mature and just has a different feel to it I hope we can take what is written and store that information so we can hopefully avoid the same situation where it would turn from a near miss to a direct hit.

So, since this is a very successful program with the NFFF I hope this will continue to open our minds and eyes to locally events that have occurred proofing we are not shielded from this happening in our little spot on the map.

Remember we are not bashing. Things occur on assignment all the time. And how many times have you thought WOW how did we get though that or why am I still here. Admit it we all have thought that at least once.

So, I will begin I have two I would like to share. One I was directly involved in and a second I witnessed.

Number 1.

Dispatched for a dwelling along with mutual aid companies. I was officer of R4399. We waited for crew and started responding. The light at Rt 206 and Hawkins in the 43rd is basically is at the end of the driver of 431. The driver turned on his Q and away we went. By the time I had the chance to see down the road we were entering the intersection. I looked north bound and he comes 1716 with the green light. 99 was now in the intersection and I remember yelling to the driver to punch it and move to the left. Last thing I remember are the headlights and the sound of 1716 Jake brake. Luckily we made it through the intersection due to the driver of 1716 being alert and knowing how to handle his unit. I believe there would have been death and serious injury if any thing was delayed by a second. Well, there should have been a delay!!!! 99 should have stopped at the red light and wait for clearance to proceed.

Things that have changed since the incident!
1. Driver was required to attend additional training
2. All personnel reviewed the State law that Emergency Vehicle must stop at controlled intersection and only proceed with due regard to the public safety.
3. General order for all local companies to 431 to announce their presence at a intersection that has a high likely hood of two units crossing paths. This is know done regularly in the 43rd, 17,28,25


That incident has changed my response greatly. I hesitate at every intersection and assure it it clear.


Number 2.

Happened last night at the Mount Holly fire. Hopefully they will fill in the blanks and what will be done after the After Action Report.
Firefighter climbing Main ladder of 5015. During his Ascension the operated started to Retract ladder in to fly. Firefighter had foot pinched between rails. Firefighter removed with foot injury. That came so close to a firefighter losing his foot. I hope everyone that was there will remember the screams from that firefighter as a reminder that a ladder is never retracted or extended while firefighters are operating on the ladder. I will tell you I will remember those scream every time I am the one operating the ladder @ the 43rd.

[division2]

Sean,
Excellent thread. I have stressed the need for open discussion of these types of incidents at all training that I deliver, not just Everyone Goes Home classes.

As a reminder to everyone these types of events should be recorded on the Firefighter Near Miss site.

www.firefighternearmiss.com

Stay Safe,
Steve

[ENG27SQ]

opsoverkill said:

3. General order for all local companies to 431 to announce their presence at a intersection that has a high likely hood of two units crossing paths. This is know done regularly in the 43rd, 17,28,25

Thats definitely a smart move Sean. We do it in the 29th for the 70/72 circle as well as Rt. 532/563,Sooey Plce. Rd and a couple more.

I know, some central..ites get annoyed when they hear "2923s approaching the 72 circle." But who knows, one day that might clue a driver of another unit to slow down (duh) coming into the circle and not speed up and try to get ahead or force their way in.

Very good idea for a thread Sean!

[coatman]

Sean:

Good thread!!

Being the driver of 1716 that night I can say I am not sure how I did miss 4399.

Once I felt the rear of the tanker start to move to the right I thought it was all over. Being a rear steer unit when you get to 35MPH the rear wheels will turn and I was praying that they would not unlock.

I have taken the defensive driving course many times along with the CEVO course and this one incident gave me a huge wake up call.

My first reaction as many heard that night over the W-R1 was a little over the top I was ready to kill the driver of the unit mainly for being " an idiot " and almost hurting his fellow firefighters because of his lack of knowledge when it came to driving an emergency vehicle.

In the end no firefighter or equipment was hurt or damaged.

Sean I can say you and Yetter handled the situation very well even concidering the way I came out of the tanker sreaming at your driver.

Thanks Again

[Click Click 27]

allow me to kind fill in the blanks here. i requested to go up 5015 to help support the firefighter on the top of the main. he just came out of fire one. so i thought i could help him out a lil. i was told to go up, but to stay one section behind. so i made my way up and placed myself one section behind like i was told. next thing i know they said they were preparing to move closer to the house. i was getting ready to hook in with my ladder belt then i felt the ladder move. then i felt my foot bend upward. so i started screaming to stop the main. at that time the ladder began to move up and my foot bended back. let me remind u I'm screaming in pain and yelling stop i took off my mask and helmet so someone would hear me because i didn't think anyone did. but once again it moved up and down, bending my foot. about the third or fourth time i was able to get my foot out. it felt like i was up there for about 30 Min's in pain before i was removed.

i just want to apologize to all of those i mother f'ed i was in so much much pain and everyone kept asking what foot it was and i kept screaming left. it was so nerveracking...lol

I'm ok my foot is badly swollen and bruised can't walk on it I'm on crutches for now.

[Click Click 27]

the only other upsetting thing that happened that night was that when certin people came up to me afterward and they stated " i didn't know what you were screaming about we thought you were having one of your "marques moments"...and it was like the boy who cried wolf"

[wellingcountry]

No Hard feeling Marques I would have Mf'ed you also if something like that had happened to me it good to know you just have a bruised foot. I must say I was trying my best to get you down as fast and as smoothly as possible and also I tried to tell everyone it was your left foot but you know how it is when one of your own gets hurt.

[thelurker]

December 2005, O-Dark and Ugly in the morning, TF201 and E801 were dispatched for a house fire. I was the officer of the first arriving piece. Chief 8000 arrived simultanious to us, and put the companies in-service. There was so much smoke lying low, we had trouble telling which house was on fire. I got off the truck and began a 360, my Nozzle man began the strech, my Irons man stood around confused, and my just out of fire school probie was chasing kinks and doing what he knew to do. We had heavy smoke issuing from the front door, I tossed my nozzle man the TIC, and continued around the back of the house. Side B had nothing showing, and a fastened gate which I opened, On side C, I found the Door open, and fire inside it. On side D I found a locked gate, so I backtracked to the C-side door. I reported to command that I had fire in the rear of the dwelling, and continued back to the A side. When I got back to the front, I found my nozzle man in the door with a dry line, his back up man standing on the lawn without as much as a SCOTT mask on, and the probie at the front door, masked up and feeding dry line into my nozzle man. I sent the probie in to back up the nozzle man while I masked up, and the nozzle man sent him back out. I finished masking up and crawled the 6 feet in to the nozzle man. We were talking about where the fire was, and why he had a dry line when the FM came over the radio and told us he had furniture leaning, and a possible basement fire, and suggested to the Chief to pull us out. I crawled back to the fron door with my nozzle man behind me, and I could hear the chief yelling. I stuck my head out the door, and unhooked my regulator, and asked him what he was yelling about. He told me to get the hell out, I turned around to tell my nozzle man, but I forgot my regulator was off. I sucked in a blast of hot air, and when I gasped from that, another one. I remember coming out the door, and helping drag my hose and nozzle man out also, but that is about it. The next arriving LT told me I was just standing on the front lawn without my helmet or hood, just kinda looking confused. They got me across the street, and the cops helped me hook up the O2 because I couldnt seem to make my fingers work. By the time I made it across the street, I looked back, and saw fire comming out the front door from top to bottom. When we finally got an ambulance, I went to Cooper. I checked out OK and was released in a few hours with minor burns to my throat. Ever since then, I have made it my personal mission to get better at sizing up the structure, and I will no longer allow anyone to drag a dry line in a private dwelling.

[WebBoss]

muffinman said:

the only other upsetting thing that happened that night was that when certin people came up to me afterward and they stated " i didn't know what you were screaming about we thought you were having one of your "marques moments"...and it was like the boy who cried wolf"

Brother... I was 5 blocks away sitting on a plug at White/Monroe (I think, the street sign was stolen). When I heard you on the radio, I knew that this was not a "Boy who cried wolf" moment, as you stated. I feel a bit bad though because the story I heard from several people who were right around you made it out to be way way more serious then it fortunately turned out to be. I'm glad to hear that it's only brusing, and that all is going to be fine. I can only imagine the pain and what was going through your mind when all that was happening.

On a side note, being someone that has worked with ladder trucks almost my entire career... NEVER NEVER NEVER retract or extend an aerial device when somebody is standing on the flys. NEVER! Something like that violates so many different standards and taught skills that is absolutely inexcusable. The ladder gets placed where it has to go and THEN the people go up and do what they have to do. If it has to be moved up or down, left or right, then that's ok as long as there is good communication and people are strapped in. BUT NEVER EXTEND OR RETRACT!

I can tell you that just hearing Marques's voice screaming and having an idea as to what was going on, my heart dropped. ALL OF US are bery lucky that this turned out to be a fairly minor injury as this could have been so much worse that it's unreal.

Off my soapbox.

[TaskForce25]

muffinman said:

the only other upsetting thing that happened that night was that when certin people came up to me afterward and they stated " i didn't know what you were screaming about we thought you were having one of your "marques moments"...and it was like the boy who cried wolf"

It's easy for others to say shit like that when they aren't the one almost losing a foot! Seriously though Marques, glad that you are ok. It could have been a lot worse.

[Click Click 27]

Thanks guys. i should be fine soon. i'm all banged up from last nite. for now i got my vicodin, ice packs, and my ps3, so i'll be able to manage for a few days. i should be seeing the workers comp doc 2morrow so i shoud have a better idea of what is going on.

[ENG27SQ]

muffinman said:

Thanks guys. i should be fine soon. i'm all banged up from last nite. for now i got my vicodin, ice packs, and my ps3, so i'll be able to manage for a few days. i should be seeing the workers comp doc 2morrow so i shoud have a better idea of what is going on.

Good to hear your in one piece bro. If you got COD4 PM me your online name, I could go for some competition....


Edit:I thought he said 360...wow my visions bad at 18...haha. Cancel that bro.

[voyager9]

thelurker said:

We had heavy smoke issuing from the front door, I tossed my nozzle man the TIC, and continued around the back of the house.
Side B had nothing showing, and a fastened gate which I opened,
On side C, I found the Door open, and fire inside it.
On side D I found a locked gate, so I backtracked to the C-side door. I reported to command that I had fire in the rear of the dwelling, and continued back to the A side.

I have made it my personal mission to get better at sizing up the structure, and I will no longer allow anyone to drag a dry line in a private dwelling.

Thanks for that. Incidently if you look back at it, what was incorrect/incomplete about your sizeup? I'm just curious because based on what you wrote I probably would have gone in as well.

And Marques... glad you're alright but yous gotta get an xbox. ps3 is for n00bs.

[JDub]

thelurker said:

December 2005, O-Dark and Ugly in the morning, TF201 and E801 were dispatched for a house fire. I was the officer of the first arriving piece. Chief 8000 arrived simultanious to us, and put the companies in-service. There was so much smoke lying low, we had trouble telling which house was on fire. I got off the truck and began a 360, my Nozzle man began the strech, my Irons man stood around confused, and my just out of fire school probie was chasing kinks and doing what he knew to do. We had heavy smoke issuing from the front door, I tossed my nozzle man the TIC, and continued around the back of the house. Side B had nothing showing, and a fastened gate which I opened, On side C, I found the Door open, and fire inside it. On side D I found a locked gate, so I backtracked to the C-side door. I reported to command that I had fire in the rear of the dwelling, and continued back to the A side. When I got back to the front, I found my nozzle man in the door with a dry line, his back up man standing on the lawn without as much as a SCOTT mask on, and the probie at the front door, masked up and feeding dry line into my nozzle man. I sent the probie in to back up the nozzle man while I masked up, and the nozzle man sent him back out. I finished masking up and crawled the 6 feet in to the nozzle man. We were talking about where the fire was, and why he had a dry line when the FM came over the radio and told us he had furniture leaning, and a possible basement fire, and suggested to the Chief to pull us out. I crawled back to the fron door with my nozzle man behind me, and I could hear the chief yelling. I stuck my head out the door, and unhooked my regulator, and asked him what he was yelling about. He told me to get the hell out, I turned around to tell my nozzle man, but I forgot my regulator was off. I sucked in a blast of hot air, and when I gasped from that, another one. I remember coming out the door, and helping drag my hose and nozzle man out also, but that is about it. The next arriving LT told me I was just standing on the front lawn without my helmet or hood, just kinda looking confused. They got me across the street, and the cops helped me hook up the O2 because I couldnt seem to make my fingers work. By the time I made it across the street, I looked back, and saw fire comming out the front door from top to bottom. When we finally got an ambulance, I went to Cooper. I checked out OK and was released in a few hours with minor burns to my throat. Ever since then, I have made it my personal mission to get better at sizing up the structure, and I will no longer allow anyone to drag a dry line in a private dwelling.

Well that probie was me and that fire was scary. I was told to help the operator which I did and we got the truck all hooked up. I turned around and the irons guy was fornicating a football on the front lawn. Dean was doing his size up and the nozzle guy was yelling at the irons guy to get packed up. Then the nozzleman looked at me and I knew that was my cue. All I remember was crawling in after the nozzle with my knees on fire. The nozzleman wanted dean so I was told to go get him and dean went in and told me to wait at the door. After that we made numerouse exterior attacks to darken it down and at one point cellar nozzle (bresnan distributor nozzle FOR ALL YOU INSTRUCTORS) into the basement. Then we finally made entry through the C-side.

Being the rookie I was and still am I probably would have made the same if not a decsion that was worse. I actually didn't know he went to the hospital until he came back and said he did. That was a scary job not knowing the exact location when we entered the first time. I am just glad I had vets to rely on.

[thelurker]

voyager9 said:

thelurker said:

We had heavy smoke issuing from the front door, I tossed my nozzle man the TIC, and continued around the back of the house.
Side B had nothing showing, and a fastened gate which I opened,
On side C, I found the Door open, and fire inside it.
On side D I found a locked gate, so I backtracked to the C-side door. I reported to command that I had fire in the rear of the dwelling, and continued back to the A side.

I have made it my personal mission to get better at sizing up the structure, and I will no longer allow anyone to drag a dry line in a private dwelling.

Thanks for that. Incidently if you look back at it, what was incorrect/incomplete about your sizeup? I'm just curious because based on what you wrote I probably would have gone in as well.

And Marques... glad you're alright but yous gotta get an xbox. ps3 is for n00bs.

What was wrong about my size up? I never talked to the resident, they would have told me it was a basement fire, and how to access it. I thought the chiefs would handle that, guess I won't trust that to happen again. I had smoke Filling the entire front doorway, floor to ceiling, that should have tipped me off to the basement fire.(Thanks 3100 and papacheese for the tips) Also, the fire I saw in the rear door was actually coming up the basement stairs, not just a surface fire. I never did get to complete a 360 because of the locked gate, and the tilting furniture was noticed from the D-side, where I never got.

If I ever get to do it again, I hope I will complete a much better size up than I did that morning.

[Click Click 27]

voyager9 said:

thelurker said:

We had heavy smoke issuing from the front door, I tossed my nozzle man the TIC, and continued around the back of the house.
Side B had nothing showing, and a fastened gate which I opened,
On side C, I found the Door open, and fire inside it.
On side D I found a locked gate, so I backtracked to the C-side door. I reported to command that I had fire in the rear of the dwelling, and continued back to the A side.

I have made it my personal mission to get better at sizing up the structure, and I will no longer allow anyone to drag a dry line in a private dwelling.

Thanks for that. Incidently if you look back at it, what was incorrect/incomplete about your sizeup? I'm just curious because based on what you wrote I probably would have gone in as well.

And Marques... glad you're alright but yous gotta get an xbox. ps3 is for n00bs.

sorry i've been a playstation man all my life..still got the old ps one and two and the psp

[lilfireguy272]

muffinman said:

allow me to kind fill in the blanks here. i requested to go up 5015 to help support the firefighter on the top of the main. he just came out of fire one. so i thought i could help him out a lil. i was told to go up, but to stay one section behind. so i made my way up and placed myself one section behind like i was told. next thing i know they said they were preparing to move closer to the house. i was getting ready to hook in with my ladder belt then i felt the ladder move. then i felt my foot bend upward. so i started screaming to stop the main. at that time the ladder began to move up and my foot bended back. let me remind u I'm screaming in pain and yelling stop i took off my mask and helmet so someone would hear me because i didn't think anyone did. but once again it moved up and down, bending my foot. about the third or fourth time i was able to get my foot out. it felt like i was up there for about 30 Min's in pain before i was removed.

i just want to apologize to all of those i mother f'ed i was in so much much pain and everyone kept asking what foot it was and i kept screaming left. it was so nerveracking...lol

I'm ok my foot is badly swollen and bruised can't walk on it I'm on crutches for now.

i was on the tip of ladder 5015 and yes i dont have that much experence on that tip but it wasnt lik i had to cut a hole in the roof but i was sent up there to pull siding but i dont think that i need anyone to back me up but now i understand i didnt kno that you where coming up and i kno it wasnt my fault but when i heard u screamen and i told them to stop. but u kno i didnt kno wat was goin on. and after that i was goin to come to u and try to help but i froze. when you hear your boy screamen in pain you dont kno wat to do im srry marques it had to happen to you.

[hp4l]

In 2006, we had a job in the 20th and I was a near miss I guess you could say. 2012 arrived with fire on the C side. Crew went in with a 1 3/4" line. I was on the knob and had the TIC. As we advanced down the hallway, we were met with a lot of heat and smoke. The officer that was in with me and the crew wanted the TIC to see what was in front of us. As I went to hand it to him, he grabbed my mask by mistake and ripped it off of my face. One breath and all I got was the nastiest smoke I had ever inhaled. I tried to back down the hallway to fix my mask when someone grabbed me from behind and yelled to get out. That was 3100, mustache and all. He practically threw my fat ass out of the house. I hacked up some nasty shit and went to the truck to grab another line. I put my mask back on and tried to go back in the house as the crew was backing out. The bedroom and hallway had flashed and we later found out that there were O2 tanks in there. I was sent to rehab, against my wishes, and finally went to do overhaul.

Thank God for 3100 bing there watching what we were doing. I wsa going to try to fix my mask in the hallway that flashed. What if I hadn't gotten it back on in time. Lesson learned - don't be afraid to back out and fix yourself. You can go back in when your 100%.

[Click Click 27]

lilfireguy272 said:

muffinman said:

allow me to kind fill in the blanks here. i requested to go up 5015 to help support the firefighter on the top of the main. he just came out of fire one. so i thought i could help him out a lil. i was told to go up, but to stay one section behind. so i made my way up and placed myself one section behind like i was told. next thing i know they said they were preparing to move closer to the house. i was getting ready to hook in with my ladder belt then i felt the ladder move. then i felt my foot bend upward. so i started screaming to stop the main. at that time the ladder began to move up and my foot bended back. let me remind u I'm screaming in pain and yelling stop i took off my mask and helmet so someone would hear me because i didn't think anyone did. but once again it moved up and down, bending my foot. about the third or fourth time i was able to get my foot out. it felt like i was up there for about 30 Min's in pain before i was removed.

i just want to apologize to all of those i mother f'ed i was in so much much pain and everyone kept asking what foot it was and i kept screaming left. it was so nerveracking...lol

I'm ok my foot is badly swollen and bruised can't walk on it I'm on crutches for now.

i was on the tip of ladder 5015 and yes i dont have that much experence on that tip but it wasnt lik i had to cut a hole in the roof but i was sent up there to pull siding but i dont think that i need anyone to back me up but now i understand i didnt kno that you where coming up and i kno it wasnt my fault but when i heard u screamen and i told them to stop. but u kno i didnt kno wat was goin on. and after that i was goin to come to u and try to help but i froze. when you hear your boy screamen in pain you dont kno wat to do im srry marques it had to happen to you.

it's ok pick..it wasn't your fault. i went up to make sure u were doing the job right. you couldn't do much from above me.

[shader101]

one hella of a way to get to be the chiefs aid J/k

a speedy recovery is ny wish for you!