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Post by soon2bfdny on Feb 18, 2009 21:15:44 GMT -5
what do you think is the right preconnect length for single family dwellings versus MFD's
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Post by fireman1190 on Feb 18, 2009 23:28:46 GMT -5
to start things off....
I like 200 feet of line for single family dwelling fires.
I dont have much experience with multi-families. At my department in West Virginia we have a college campus in town which presents sort of a multi-family situation with the College Dorms. More like Hotel buildings though.
For the sheer size of the buildings and the fact that we sometimes have to park 200 feet away (pretty grassy campus with no access for firetrucks). we carry a lot of 3 inch and 2-1/2" with a gated-wye on our engine for that reason.
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Post by voyager9 on Feb 19, 2009 9:49:45 GMT -5
The crew has to estimate the lay on arrival regardless of the building type. If it's close enough then the cross-lay is pulled. If it's not then they have to pull a 3" leader and extend the lines off of that. This could be because it's a MFD, garden-type apartments, a SFD with a huge front lawn, or a McMansion SFD.
In general I think 200' is a good length for preconnects. Above that and you probably want to look at a larger line anyway to get good flow and avoid friction loss issues.
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Post by papacheese on Feb 20, 2009 11:34:03 GMT -5
Our engines have a "Line to the Rear" load on one side, the idea for which was blantantly stolen from District 30 (thanks guys!) and principally used for those McMansions on the east side of Motown. It's 500 foot of 3 inch hose deadloaded male coupling leading, with a water thief on the end. If we need to extend lines, just pull off whatever amount of 3 inch is needed, connect it to a discharge, then connect the hand line to a discharge on the thief. What I like best about this arrangement is that the water thief offers the flexibility of connecting one or two 1 3/4 handlines, a 2 1/2 hand line or a portable monitor...whatever the situation calls for. The thief even has a nice carrying handle on it....
To answer the original question, we carry 200 feet...it seems to address most of our situations.
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rp42
Forum Crew Member
Posts: 45
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Post by rp42 on Feb 20, 2009 18:58:01 GMT -5
We have 200 ft preconnects in the Matty Dales, and a 100 ft in the front bumper. I really think it works different for each town depending on what you have. If the houses sit a few ft of the curb, then 200 might be too much. No lenght is right, some places don't use preconnects at all.
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rp42
Forum Crew Member
Posts: 45
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Post by rp42 on Feb 20, 2009 19:00:01 GMT -5
and to answer your questions on SFD vs MFDs, i think preconnects aren't the answers due to long strecths and standpipes. A 100 ft 2 1/2in apt pack is what my company uses
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Post by cmcollier on Feb 20, 2009 19:34:55 GMT -5
I think the "right" length depends on your buildings. Mt Laurel has all 200' preconnects. Any stretch longer than 200' is accomplished by pulling 3" with a water thief and then using the 1 3/4" or 2 1/2" high rise pack off of that. When I worked in Wildwood they had a 200' preconnect and a 150' preconnect. The houses there are very close to the street and the 150' was usually more than enough. They do the same thing with the 3" and a gated wye and the high rise packs to stretch long lines if needed. The FDNY has no preconnects other than a 50' bumper line. each engine hose bed is divided into 4 sections. 1 section is 3 1/2" hose to supply the engine, another engine, fire dept connections or tower ladders. 1 bed is 12 lengths (600') of 2 1/2" hose. The other two beds are the same: 10 lead lengths (500') of 2 1/2" hose with a 2 1/2" to 1 1/2" reducer and then 6 lengths (300') of 1 3/4" line. Those two lines are 800' and not preconnected. The nozzle, back-up, and door men take their folds followed by the nozzle, back-up, door, and control men from the second engine and go to the fire, the control man breaks the line at the appropriate point and gives it to the chauffeur to connect to the pump panel. After the 6 lengths of 1 3/4" line the hose is increased to 2 1/2" to reduce friction loss.  Here is a picture of 68 Engine after a recent job showing the hose bed layout. |
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ENG27SQ
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Post by ENG27SQ on Feb 20, 2009 22:07:53 GMT -5
We have 200 ft preconnects in the Matty Dales, and a 100 ft in the front bumper. I really think it works different for each town depending on what you have. If the houses sit a few ft of the curb, then 200 might be too much. No lenght is right, some places don't use preconnects at all. I've noticed companies straying away from cross lays. Most are going with bumper lines or rear lines (out of the bed) as they will either pull short or close, or pull past the dwelling. All 3 ways to ensure a ladder can make access to it the dwelling. |
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Post by soon2bfdny on Feb 21, 2009 2:18:25 GMT -5
get us an action picture of engine 68
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Post by papacheese on Feb 21, 2009 6:31:07 GMT -5
Just an opinion - I'm a HUGE fan of the mattydale style preconnect having started way back in the days of skid loads. Motown uses the triple load method, which (as discussed in other posts) is absolutely reliable when stretching. We do have one engine with the preconnects in the back...and it's not as easily adaptable to some situations, especially those in which the engine can't pull past the incident. The "mattydale" style configuration (IMHO) offers maximum flexibility...you can easily stretch to the front, back, or 90 degrees off the side.
If you notice, the big city departments tend to use all deadloads, since their targets can vary so much. Another reason it works for them is for the most part, the same crew is always together and have the stretching and charging sequence down to a science.
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Post by Kramer on Feb 21, 2009 7:25:00 GMT -5
At the west on the engine and the squad we use 150' bumper lines(with 50' stored with it dead) packed in a way we developed, and there is 3 cross lays packed in the minute man load. 2 are 1 3/4" and one is 2". Off the rear we have a total of 400' of 2" also packed in a minuteman(200' live and 200'dead to be added in where needed. Our 3" is set up with a Y on the end just in case 400' isn't enough...
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Post by soon2bfdny on Feb 23, 2009 22:34:26 GMT -5
I think the "right" length depends on your buildings. Mt Laurel has all 200' preconnects. Any stretch longer than 200' is accomplished by pulling 3" with a water thief and then using the 1 3/4" or 2 1/2" high rise pack off of that. When I worked in Wildwood they had a 200' preconnect and a 150' preconnect. The houses there are very close to the street and the 150' was usually more than enough. They do the same thing with the 3" and a gated wye and the high rise packs to stretch long lines if needed. The FDNY has no preconnects other than a 50' bumper line. each engine hose bed is divided into 4 sections. 1 section is 3 1/2" hose to supply the engine, another engine, fire dept connections or tower ladders. 1 bed is 12 lengths (600') of 2 1/2" hose. The other two beds are the same: 10 lead lengths (500') of 2 1/2" hose with a 2 1/2" to 1 1/2" reducer and then 6 lengths (300') of 1 3/4" line. Those two lines are 800' and not preconnected. The nozzle, back-up, and door men take their folds followed by the nozzle, back-up, door, and control men from the second engine and go to the fire, the control man breaks the line at the appropriate point and gives it to the chauffeur to connect to the pump panel. After the 6 lengths of 1 3/4" line the hose is increased to 2 1/2" to reduce friction loss. Here is a picture of 68 Engine after a recent job showing the hose bed layout. this is after a job? i guess they dont sweat at fires in the FDNY. anyway, do the chocks in between the hose signify anything |
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ENG27SQ
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MS Paint Guru
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Post by ENG27SQ on Feb 24, 2009 14:43:52 GMT -5
I think the "right" length depends on your buildings. Mt Laurel has all 200' preconnects. Any stretch longer than 200' is accomplished by pulling 3" with a water thief and then using the 1 3/4" or 2 1/2" high rise pack off of that. When I worked in Wildwood they had a 200' preconnect and a 150' preconnect. The houses there are very close to the street and the 150' was usually more than enough. They do the same thing with the 3" and a gated wye and the high rise packs to stretch long lines if needed. The FDNY has no preconnects other than a 50' bumper line. each engine hose bed is divided into 4 sections. 1 section is 3 1/2" hose to supply the engine, another engine, fire dept connections or tower ladders. 1 bed is 12 lengths (600') of 2 1/2" hose. The other two beds are the same: 10 lead lengths (500') of 2 1/2" hose with a 2 1/2" to 1 1/2" reducer and then 6 lengths (300') of 1 3/4" line. Those two lines are 800' and not preconnected. The nozzle, back-up, and door men take their folds followed by the nozzle, back-up, door, and control men from the second engine and go to the fire, the control man breaks the line at the appropriate point and gives it to the chauffeur to connect to the pump panel. After the 6 lengths of 1 3/4" line the hose is increased to 2 1/2" to reduce friction loss. Here is a picture of 68 Engine after a recent job showing the hose bed layout. this is after a job? i guess they dont sweat at fires in the FDNY. anyway, do the chocks in between the hose signify anything When you do it for a living you don't sweat yourself out on every fire, i'm sure those guys have done their share like we all will/and have. Someone must like being sarcastic for attention..  |
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rp42
Forum Crew Member
Posts: 45
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Post by rp42 on Feb 24, 2009 19:57:27 GMT -5
I think the "right" length depends on your buildings. Mt Laurel has all 200' preconnects. Any stretch longer than 200' is accomplished by pulling 3" with a water thief and then using the 1 3/4" or 2 1/2" high rise pack off of that. When I worked in Wildwood they had a 200' preconnect and a 150' preconnect. The houses there are very close to the street and the 150' was usually more than enough. They do the same thing with the 3" and a gated wye and the high rise packs to stretch long lines if needed. The FDNY has no preconnects other than a 50' bumper line. each engine hose bed is divided into 4 sections. 1 section is 3 1/2" hose to supply the engine, another engine, fire dept connections or tower ladders. 1 bed is 12 lengths (600') of 2 1/2" hose. The other two beds are the same: 10 lead lengths (500') of 2 1/2" hose with a 2 1/2" to 1 1/2" reducer and then 6 lengths (300') of 1 3/4" line. Those two lines are 800' and not preconnected. The nozzle, back-up, and door men take their folds followed by the nozzle, back-up, door, and control men from the second engine and go to the fire, the control man breaks the line at the appropriate point and gives it to the chauffeur to connect to the pump panel. After the 6 lengths of 1 3/4" line the hose is increased to 2 1/2" to reduce friction loss. Here is a picture of 68 Engine after a recent job showing the hose bed layout. this is after a job? i guess they dont sweat at fires in the FDNY. anyway, do the chocks in between the hose signify anything I just noticed those chocks, it seems like they are in random spots but thats me. |
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Post by cmcollier on Feb 26, 2009 18:23:14 GMT -5
the chocks are in no particular place. just there so you can grab one when you grab your folds of hose.
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Post by WebBoss on Feb 27, 2009 21:54:08 GMT -5
Our engines have a "Line to the Rear" load on one side, the idea for which was blantantly stolen from District 30 (thanks guys!) and principally used for those McMansions on the east side of Motown. It's 500 foot of 3 inch hose deadloaded male coupling leading, with a water thief on the end. If we need to extend lines, just pull off whatever amount of 3 inch is needed, connect it to a discharge, then connect the hand line to a discharge on the thief. What I like best about this arrangement is that the water thief offers the flexibility of connecting one or two 1 3/4 handlines, a 2 1/2 hand line or a portable monitor...whatever the situation calls for. The thief even has a nice carrying handle on it.... To answer the original question, we carry 200 feet...it seems to address most of our situations. Soley a 302 thing on Engine 3021, primarily designed for long stretches into the Garden Apartments and the warehouses. Works great. Actually, the best application of this arrangement was off of Engine 3112 at the Moorestown Municipal Complex fire - it was in place after a 400' stretch for the leader line, flaked, and had water on the fire within 2 minutes. (Sorry Rudy ;D ) |
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bgares
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Post by bgares on Mar 5, 2009 16:54:16 GMT -5
Our engines have a "Line to the Rear" load on one side, the idea for which was blantantly stolen from District 30 (thanks guys!) and principally used for those McMansions on the east side of Motown. It's 500 foot of 3 inch hose deadloaded male coupling leading, with a water thief on the end. If we need to extend lines, just pull off whatever amount of 3 inch is needed, connect it to a discharge, then connect the hand line to a discharge on the thief. What I like best about this arrangement is that the water thief offers the flexibility of connecting one or two 1 3/4 handlines, a 2 1/2 hand line or a portable monitor...whatever the situation calls for. The thief even has a nice carrying handle on it.... To answer the original question, we carry 200 feet...it seems to address most of our situations. Soley a 302 thing on Engine 3021, primarily designed for long stretches into the Garden Apartments and the warehouses. Works great. Actually, the best application of this arrangement was off of Engine 3112 at the Moorestown Municipal Complex fire - it was in place after a 400' stretch for the leader line, flaked, and had water on the fire within 2 minutes. (Sorry Rudy ;D ) Sorry a little late on this reply... Sean...what about the Federal Street Job in the City? I think that has to be the best. Good ol' Kenny remembered his growin up years |
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Post by WebBoss on Mar 6, 2009 20:21:29 GMT -5
Soley a 302 thing on Engine 3021, primarily designed for long stretches into the Garden Apartments and the warehouses. Works great. Actually, the best application of this arrangement was off of Engine 3112 at the Moorestown Municipal Complex fire - it was in place after a 400' stretch for the leader line, flaked, and had water on the fire within 2 minutes. (Sorry Rudy ;D ) Sorry a little late on this reply... Sean...what about the Federal Street Job in the City? I think that has to be the best. Good ol' Kenny remembered his growin up years Man however did I forget that one... 300' stretch of leader line put an 1 3/4" in the rear of this house which was the only line that made the fire. Alleyways and back yards were no stop for us that day! (and neither was the rush hour traffic during our 2 minute trip that shoulda been 5-7) |
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bgares
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Post by bgares on Mar 7, 2009 16:09:08 GMT -5
F@!$, F@!$ D@mn D@mn D@mn its work!!! I think that dent is still on the dash...Good times good times.
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