gotwork
Special Operations Command 
Doin' It Our Way
Posts: 73
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Post by gotwork on Dec 12, 2008 20:43:13 GMT -5
The most difficult part of our job is crew selection. However, you can only hope that when the opportunity arises that everything you have poured into your people comes to the forfront and they perform. We may never know whether certain FF's can do certain things until that moment. There are plenty of places that FF's can hide and be top of the mountain FF's that may have never ever had to use their skills until that moment.......But thats the nature of todays fire service less fires, quicker acceleration, and crappier construction. We don't have the odds in our favor, but techniques like VES may help us do our first priority just one more time than we could have without it. The most important thing is discussions like this one to always keep us in perspective that training can help but never replace expereince. But remember this you can never claim experience until you have been part of DOING it. There are some "experienced" FF's that we all know who would crap themselves when faced with the Captain's decision.....Go Hard but Go Smart, or Go Home. The only thing we can give them is the concept of processing information and acting with that knowledge. It is never going to be perfect, there will always be Monday quarterbacks that will evaluate our performance whether there or not, and as long as you acted with the information and did your best that is all that matters at that moment. Unfortunately things can go bad even with the best safest plans/actions. But we can learn from every incident and pass on the information to others to prevent it in the future.
And REV I 'm in..... Let's make our program and wake up the YB's and let them know that we can do more without taking unneccesary risks. GO Squad Co (LOL)
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RngrVnc33
Forum Captain
Keepin' It Moist
Posts: 131
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Post by RngrVnc33 on Dec 13, 2008 0:32:10 GMT -5
Now after reading the statement...right on bro...this aint the girl scouts ladies and gentlemen sometimes we have to do dangerous things. Damn right........... [glow=red,2,300]You never know till the moment the fire stares you down. You’re either gonna do this job, Or be great at it [/glow] courtesy of FF Tim Kizminski BACKDRAFT |
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Post by thecutman on Dec 14, 2008 18:24:42 GMT -5
Most of the instructors at BCFA and SCFA know that I am a proponent of VES. Some know that I have taught that section including room orientation at BCFA for truck company and we even taught some of this at engine company with Wylie, Ray, Clark, BG, Friddel and many more involved in the thought process.
The Captain is right on when he says that feeling things by hand and orienting yourself with your surroundings is of utmost importance while conducting a search. While I taught this class many times and I have been through the motions by attending numerous classes on VES and I continue to learn everyday.
As far as stretching a line goes that is not what VES is. As far as two guys goes it only takes one guy to search a 10 x 10 room anymore will just hinder the search.
While teaching this section at BCFA, and Wylie and Chad can vouch for this as they assisted while I taught the first few sessions a few years back, that people had a tough time searching as it was. A primary search shouldn't take forever it should be quick and efficient, there is no need to throw everything all over the place. By throwing things or knocking them over it totally screws up your room orientation and could block your egress path and we even saw that it caused the victim to become buried under the debris and either be totally missed or harder to rescue. It waste your energy and takes way to much time and all of these were seen through instruction not second guessing.
I feel that the explanation that the captain gives is excellent. If you wanna stay on the sideline and watch the fireman get the job done than have at it, just stay out of our way... and stop talking smack!
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Post by papacheese on Dec 15, 2008 14:50:37 GMT -5
Excellent advice, cutman...and a good illustration of how instructive these discussions can truly be....I certainly don't think it's been "talking smack".....
Personally, I view VES as an essential job task....you should know and practice how to perform it, not just the physical part ("put the ladder here, probe the floor before entering, etc") but also the critical decision-making part as well.
Read the Captain's explanation again folks; this wasn't someone mindlessly going through the motions - as he so aptly explained, there was a whole lot of thinking, weighing, and decision-making going on there. Having accumulated past experiences, he made a tactical judgment which then had to be changed when the bedroom door refused to close. I admit that I was uncertain of his motives until I read the explanation...but quickly understood afterwards that he did the right thing. His comments were worth their weight in instructional gold
In reviewing this thread, no one is saying "Don't teach VES", or "Don't do VES", but instead to train, understand, and practice ALL facets of VES before undertaking it.
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