Click Click 27
Forum Crew Member
If You Don't Know Me By Now..U Better Google My Name!
Posts: 39
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Post by Click Click 27 on Nov 5, 2008 12:47:47 GMT -5
Why is it that everybody has to prove that they can do this and they can do that and why did they do this instead of that. ;D Simple. Some take the job as they have to be the best (now don't get me wrong we all want to do the job the best and safest way we can without injury to ourselves or a member of the public, but some take that way out of context) and their ego takes off, along with their head size. This is supposed to be a brotherhood, and it seems that some have seem to have forgotten that. This is not s shot at ANY department, its my true feeling on this issue, nation wide. Agreed |
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Post by bmw3014 on Nov 5, 2008 14:28:49 GMT -5
Why are you guys always on here trying to defend yourselves from the rest of the county??? Volunteering yourselves for someone else's calls is just disrespectful and wrong. All your doing is starting turf wars.
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Post by WebBoss on Nov 5, 2008 16:53:32 GMT -5
Why are you guys always on here trying to defend yourselves from the rest of the county??? Volunteering yourselves for someone else's calls is just disrespectful and wrong. All your doing is starting turf wars. Who guys? |
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Post by WebBoss on Nov 5, 2008 16:57:32 GMT -5
Simple. Some take the job as they have to be the best (now don't get me wrong we all want to do the job the best and safest way we can without injury to ourselves or a member of the public, but some take that way out of context) and their ego takes off, along with their head size. This is supposed to be a brotherhood, and it seems that some have seem to have forgotten that. This is not s shot at ANY department, its my true feeling on this issue, nation wide. Agreed Agreed too... but I ask that you think about something for a little while before replying to this comment of mine. (actually, this goes for everyone) What has sparked you and/or your department to do something you consider progressive? BETTER YET - I'm going to fork this off into a new topic for further discussion since we are way off the original topic now. (largely my fault too, apologies) |
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gotwork
Special Operations Command 
Doin' It Our Way
Posts: 73
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Post by gotwork on Nov 5, 2008 18:54:32 GMT -5
BMW3014-
That is part of the larger problem, the word TURF. When we all learn to work together and provide the best service possible we will all make the service better.
I can use an example. NJTP (in our local but thats another thing) car carrier well involved. We offer our 1000 gallon engine with 40 gallons of foam to assist you. Told no (I respect that). 5 engines, a squrt, some FOAM, and a tanker later the fire goes out. Its not a big deal to utilize a closer piece to help out. If I had the same situation and you offered it to me I would say yes come it may mitigate the hazard quicker.
There should not be TURF or Sand boxes, we are our own worst enemies. You can review any of the grids in westampton for structural assignments and you will see we have no sandbox. We call the closest units to achieve a minimum of 2 engines, a ladder, and a rescue on the initial. On rescues we also add BLS 509 to assist with providing great transport.
(as far as the NJTP WE DID NOT ASK FOR THE FIRE DUTIES, WE ASKED FOR THE RESCUE CONTRACT, THAT IS ENDEAVOR AND AMERICAS NOW, not yours!!! I actually told the TP authority we work well together with your department and it would enhance protection. Where did it go wrong?)
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Post by pickemoff on Nov 5, 2008 19:00:51 GMT -5
Well that about sums that up  |
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1900
Forum Captain
Posts: 103
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Post by 1900 on Nov 5, 2008 19:23:45 GMT -5
Well I will speak for my company as we were ones to always offer up or take in a run.
It began with being fortunate enough to have a dedicated group of individuals to staff the rigs. With that alot of the guys are younger or work shift work which gives them the extra time to be at the firehouse. Now did we wanna go to work? Sure! That is what most of us are here for. Now along with that and most of us having type A personalities it is just not in our nature to just sit around. With that being said we would be sitting in house with a fully staffed, trained and experienced crew listening to dispatch after dispatch go out unanswered or understaffed. While additional resources were continuing to be called and us still sitting (mostly because off personalities and sandboxes and no other reason lets all be honest) peoples houses continued to burn and lives continued to be risked. Therefore when there was a chance that we could make a difference we would offer up.
Was it right? I guess everyone will have different feelings on that. My question is, is the sandboxes and personalities process of your grid making process right? Instead of putting the bs aside and calling the company that is trained, has the equipment and is a company that you can depend upon to not only show up but do something when they get there and make some sort of a positive outcome.
Lets remember why we are here. To protect and save the lives and property of everyone, all bull$hit aside.
Look in the mirror can you say you and/or your company honestly puts all that aside and calls for what is best for the residence and visitors of you town, not for your ego and/or personality
You can look at my grids anytime...no bs or personalities here.
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ENG27SQ
Division Supervisor
MS Paint Guru
Posts: 653
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Post by ENG27SQ on Nov 5, 2008 21:41:34 GMT -5
Why are you guys always on here trying to defend yourselves from the rest of the county??? Volunteering yourselves for someone else's calls is just disrespectful and wrong. All your doing is starting turf wars. I don't think they are trying to defend themselves from the rest of the county. Let's be honest, I'll use the 27 as an example. If There's a decent wreck at Bromley Blvd near the rear entrance to Sears with confirmed entrapment and SQD2723 happens to be at TGI Fridays for dinner and notifies central that they are in the area and would like to request if their services are needed. I'm sure they will be told to respond in as they ARE close to that call location. Not trying to jump it and ruin 301s morale for being 1st due. Now that might agitate some at 301 off that 2723 was 1st due to their call and got to cut and all the fancy talk. But lets face it. Someone said earlier that Engine X is calling notifying they have a crew and can respond in NOW, while Engine XX is on the grid, BUT will engine xx get out and respond, or would it be more productive to bring in Engine X as they are out there ready to rock and roll? Yes, that might agitate people for bringing someone else in, but again THIS IS A BROTHERHOOD, we are there for one another. Things change every second and situations like this do occur. It's the way it goes. |
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Post by papacheese on Nov 6, 2008 6:58:37 GMT -5
I think the Rev hit the nail on the head...DO THE RIGHT THING, which is strictly situational, not something that can be universally applied. For every scenario that's offered up, there are three, four, even five points of view about whether it was right or not.
Again, I go back to my original point: will that company's response make the hazard/situation better? If so, then go for it. If you're just bored and simply looking to buff some action, stay where you are and protect your citizens.
Our grids are set up in a logical fashion based on target hazards and anticipated fireloading/exposures. We put a great deal of thought and research into figuring out what will work well and what resources will be needed given a specific situation. We try to stay current on the capabilities and assets of our mutual aid companies so we can use them to our best advantage. From my viewpoint, the sandbox philosophy seems to be slowly but surely dying off, which is a good thing...in listening to the usual array of "bang box" dispatches on the scanner, I'm hard pressed to criticize any of the choices being made (within the limits of my knowledge). In fact, being the old dinosaur that I am, I find it slightly appalling that a structure fire now warrants the kind of dispatch that's typically heard these days, but that's not a slight, just a nod to the realities we now face.
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Bossa
Forum Crew Member
Posts: 33
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Post by Bossa on Nov 6, 2008 14:08:04 GMT -5
I dont neccisarily have an issue with a company calling central to offer assistance on an incident. I have a bigger issue with the lets start heading that way even if we arent needed and calling the IC directly, therefore distracting him from concentrating on the incident!
However, my bigger peeve is the sending way more than what was asked for when assistance is asked for! That is a bigger issue to me..
For example, IC asks for his next alarm and part of that alarm, an engine from station XXX is called. Station XXX responds not only with engine XXXX, but also engine XXXX, Ladder XXXX, utility XXXX and dont forget chief XXXX is also coming. Thats a far bigger issue to me than "Engine XXXX is close by, do you need assistance?"
It happens, and I can tell you straight up, that in our district, nothing will get you pulled from our grids faster than doing that a few times or consistently showing up with less than 4 people on the truck!
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Post by breakingsomemirror on Nov 6, 2008 14:28:44 GMT -5
Good points, Bossa. I've had to deal with both of these situations and sometimes, it's tricky! Funny thing with the sending more that what's requested is that I was an officer and Chief of a company that was the one sending too much! I kept asking, "Why if XX is asking for an engine, do we empty the whole station?" I was told that it was because we have an unwritten "agreement" with them and that we just send everything. I was also told that it was because "that's how we've always done it"! (Man, I hate that statement!  Anyhow, my problem was that when they were calling for an engine, my station would end up being empty, leaving nobody behind to handle things in my town. Finally, I called the neighboring Chief and asked, "So, when you call for an engine, what do you really want?" He replied, "Just an engine. I really don't know why you guys send everything!" He then explained that he wanted to say something but didn't want to offend us. I told him it's not offending to be honest and just tell us what you want. The was the beginning of a good course of dialog with that department and we finally got past the "way things were always done". Still had a hard time trying to get people to get over "emptying the house" every time we got called on MA. Way back in the day when I was a young buck, I remember our closet MA company kept covering our station with a driver, a junior and a non-pack Senior FF! We warned them that it would not be accepted. You send a full qualified crew (D, O and at least 2 FF) or don't bother coming. They basically told us that they didn't think we would really take them off the grids because they were so close, which they were. Guess what? They were yanked! Their Chief wasn't happy but I remember our Chief stuck to his guns and didn't fall down to "peer pressure". Good luck and stay safe. |
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Post by fp43301(RET) on Nov 6, 2008 23:52:13 GMT -5
Since i have moved to va i have seen some very interesting things.......
first off if you are in the area of an incident . use a cell phone and call central..... if a co is not getting out for whatever reason they may need your assistance but is up to the ic and it should only be from central to ic then central ic and other co. First off there are sogs in most companys follow them . grids are developed for a reason . Buddy boxes will always be a problem in all areas. i now live in va bedford county..... i live about 1 1/3 miles from roanoke co . vinton va. On a dwelling call in bedford co u will get co XX first due, co XX 2nd due and rit. if rit is not fullfilled it goes to co X which is a experenced rit co. problem is roanoke co st X is closer then 2 of the other companys. this is an issue . Burlington county has it good u have apparatus everywhere. the closest ladder in bedford co is 35 min out of my first due but could be 5 min if the 2 counties got along, hazmat team is 35 min out and the SOC is 35 min out of my first due. u think us fire police cause prblems u should see the 15 povs for soc whopark all over.......
why dont companys work who got it together reach out to a less trained or less experenced co. it would go along way
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