hp4l
Division Supervisor 
Remember Your Roots
Posts: 600
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Post by hp4l on Aug 20, 2008 21:24:34 GMT -5
I know there are plenty of mixed reactions on this subject. Simple question though, are any departments participating at Wildwood this year? We are the biggest county in the state and last year we had 1 piece in the parade (4314) and not many in the lots (2723 is the only one that comes to my mind right now). Just curious.
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ENG27SQ
Division Supervisor
MS Paint Guru
Posts: 653
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Post by ENG27SQ on Aug 30, 2008 17:00:17 GMT -5
I know there are plenty of mixed reactions on this subject. Simple question though, are any departments participating at Wildwood this year? We are the biggest county in the state and last year we had 1 piece in the parade (4314) and not many in the lots (2723 is the only one that comes to my mind right now). Just curious. 178 had their new BLS in the North Lot. But still, only a tiny section of Burlington Cty was represented, as Jim said, we are the biggest county in NJ. |
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Post by Kramer on Sept 12, 2008 17:17:08 GMT -5
nothing at all from burlco in there this year...
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hp4l
Division Supervisor
Remember Your Roots
Posts: 600
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Post by hp4l on Sept 15, 2008 15:22:44 GMT -5
I saw Stations 905 and 301 in the parade. Both companies looked good. Anyone know how they made out at judging? I still think it's sad that we don't have a better showing every year.
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Post by thelurker on Sept 17, 2008 0:01:13 GMT -5
I have to disagree Jim, I think it is a waste of money and irresponsible to take apparatus that far out of their jurisdiction. Remember those tax payers are approving 300,000 - 1,000,000 dollar trucks to protect their towns, not for wackers to take across the state to see who has the shinier truck. I can't believe that the residents don't make a stink about it, and the media blows it up into a big thing. You want to parade, take trucks locally, but you should never be taking a functional piece of apparatus that far from it's local for anything but a large scale emergency.
Just my .02 and the reason I don't think anyone but the delegates should be going to the Convention
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hp4l
Division Supervisor
Remember Your Roots
Posts: 600
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Post by hp4l on Sept 17, 2008 6:51:06 GMT -5
I can see both sides of this argument. It's not just about parading a shiny truck down a street though. It has to do with pride in your department and equipment. No, I don't think you should strip your entire town or county. But does it really hurt to take a truck or two down, when chances are there isn't enough manpower at home to staff it anyway? Look at Cinnaminson as an example. We didn't take any trucks. But there were so many members at the convention that there was no way all of the trucks would have gotten out for a call.
Look at towns that spend thousands of dollars to restore their antiques and they sit and collect dust. What a waste. We can argue over this for a long time. All I was trying to get across was it was a poor showing once again and maybe it will change in the future. As long is it doesn't put any town in danger, then I look forward to the possible change.
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Post by thelurker on Sept 17, 2008 8:46:55 GMT -5
Jim you are right about the manpower, however what is the last sentence in my post say? I don't believe anyone but delegates should be attending the convention. How can anyone justify essentially shutting down their FD for one weekend a year so everyone can go on what really amounts to an extended pub crawl. That is absolutely ridiculous. Towns are so stripped of man power that I heard 5 companies in the Medford Area get dispatched simultaniously for a rubbish call. Are you serious? How the hell is this acceptable to our residents? In my own volunteer company, we were stripped to a skeleton crew of 4 or 5 guys. I was only off from work for 12 hours the entire weekend because everyone has to go look at blue lights and holler at girls to show them their tits...it's bullshit. I went twice, it was stupid. Do your duty to your towns, that is the commitment you made when you signed up, both volunteer and career.
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hp4l
Division Supervisor
Remember Your Roots
Posts: 600
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Post by hp4l on Sept 17, 2008 9:27:33 GMT -5
Before I post my rebuttal, for those that don't know us, this is just a friendly argument. Just because we disagree on a subject or two does not mean we hate each other or have to post bad things about each other like the okd watchdesk site. Having said that...
Again, I can see your points Dean, but how can you tell people, especially volunteers, when they can or cannot be away from their stations. The teachers have a convention in the middle of the school year and shut down schools for a couple days. Yes, this proffesion cannot be shut down like the teachers, I'm just showing that we are not the only ones that have conventions. If you go to Wildwood for the right reasons, you can meet vendors and salespeople, check out new and used equipment and techniques, catch up with friends from the service and even make some new ones.
To deal with short staffing, mutual aid is added to dispatches. While I agree 5 companies for a rubbish call is a bit much, there are towns that have similar dispatches for BS calls regardless of time of year. The key here is mutual aid. That's why we have agreements. Duty crews also work, as I know some departments schedule paid or volunteer members to be in the stations for this weekend.
The difference between this and say Baltimore, or Harrisburg is the length. I know there are departments that send a ton of guys to other expos. But they are just for a half a day or so. It takes good management to adjust for times like that by beefing up grids accordingly.
I know I am going to regret this, but do we have any other takes on this. I don't care if you disagree with me. Just trying to get some other opinions.
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Post by thelurker on Sept 17, 2008 11:07:51 GMT -5
And as a counter point Jim...you call 911 because someone is breaking into your house, and it takes 30 minutes for a cop to respond from Delran to your house because all the other police agencies were given 7 minutes to respond and none did because they all decided to go drinking instead.... We are a branch of the emergency services, and therefore responsible to respond in that capacity. As for the comment about telling volunteers what to do, thats the oldest argument in the book, volunteers are told what to do all the time so I am not going to waste my time fighting you on that.
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hp4l
Division Supervisor
Remember Your Roots
Posts: 600
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Post by hp4l on Sept 17, 2008 11:17:56 GMT -5
I am not tryting to say you can or can't tell a volunteer what to do. I am trying to say that you cannot tell them when they can or cannot be available. And I am sure that no calls were scratched due to the convention. If so, shame on the department that scratched for not having coverage. If you know you don't have enough manpower, you add mutual aid. Same as we do when there are banquets / dinners (whatever your department calls them). Are we supposed to cancel those too?
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Post by thelurker on Sept 17, 2008 14:53:06 GMT -5
Maybe you should cancel those?? I don't know. Do the tax payers know that their money is being spent on open bars, DJ's, and your choice of Chicken, Beef, or Fish? I figure that as long as there are a few firefighters willing to sit out and be a duty crew available to respond, then it's no big deal if you have a banquet or not.
As a great example, I was going home one night and I saw the DFD had an event at a location in Delran this year. All of the trucks were there and the designated members responded from the event. Hence still being in town, still socializing, but still being able to respond properly if called.
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JDub
Forum Assistant Chief
Firefighter
Posts: 192
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Post by JDub on Sept 18, 2008 7:10:42 GMT -5
Thats an event inside Delran. When we have Cinnaminson Day we have all of our trucks out there and trucks are designated to leave for calls.
When it comes to banquets...in most departments they are supposed to be moral boosters/bringing the members together types of things. When a department has one they should take the responsibility to add mutual aid and/or have a duty crew on. For example, Cinnaminson had a people scheduled for an overnight crew along with added mutual aid and the duty engine for the 2006, 2007, and 2008 banquets.
When it comes to Wildwood, I see both sides. Why take a department out of service for a parade but I also see where the county should be better represented. How can we fix the issue to satisfy everyone? I have no clue, I am going to be honest. I have some ideas to start it off.
1. Maybe we can try to schedule 5 trucks, not companies, but trucks for every years parade. Example: 2009 (D30, D20, D43, D12, D46) Now of course if you have an antique just send that, then you don't take a first or second due piece O.O.S. that you rely on. You would also have to stagger your companies so you don't strip one section of Burlingtong County.
2. Get all the companies that have antiques and have them be the only trucks that represent the county. Once again the pieces we rely on to fight fire aren't O.O.S.
I am not saying these are great ideas, they are just ideas.
*Also let me note that Dean and Jim are my friends and I am just entering the friendly debate.*
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Post by thelurker on Sept 18, 2008 9:13:37 GMT -5
I like the idea of the antiques thing Josh, the picking towns thing, I guess would really be up to who wants to participate or not. However, I still think you are wasting tax money taking a truck to the other side of the state for a parade. If it was like a big forest fire or catastrophe then it is understandable, but just to show off is not what your voters had in mind when they approved all that money for those new pieces of apparatus that we just had to have.
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JDub
Forum Assistant Chief
Firefighter
Posts: 192
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Post by JDub on Sept 18, 2008 11:34:38 GMT -5
Dean I totally understand where you are coming from with the whole tax payers money thing. I mean did you read yesterdays Burlington County Times. So don't get me wrong we can't waste tax payers money, I mean my parents pay taxes towards CFD. However I think there is a way to be a part of Wildwood or any other parade/convention without stripping towns.
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Reverend
Forum Lieutenant
"Well done is better than well said" BF
Posts: 84
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Post by Reverend on Sept 18, 2008 14:31:04 GMT -5
WORD, DEAN
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JDub
Forum Assistant Chief
Firefighter
Posts: 192
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Post by JDub on Sept 19, 2008 22:38:05 GMT -5
So I was thinking about what I said earlier about the antiques. I am just throwing this idea out there. What if all the departments in the county that have antiques/parade pieces got together and formed say "The Burlington County Antique Fire Apparatus Society" or something like that. The group/entity could be where all the departments could get together and help each other out whether it is where someone can get a part or where the next parade or show is. Like say Shamong has a similar truck to Beverly's 1221 but Shamong or Beverly had no idea they had similar trucks. That just opens up a room for them to share ideas, resources or whatever.
Now, you might be thinking, thats great you Jewish Ba**ard if you have an antique, but what about the departments that don't have one. Well, for example, say Rev over at Riverton has a 72 Mack thats in great condition but Cinn City doesn't have anything. Cinn City can help Rev and his brothers at 241 with preparing the truck for a event or help track down that chrome wing nut they have yet to find.
Lastly it can also help preserve the history of not only the fire service in general but the fire service within our own county. It just doesn't only have to be about the fire trucks we have it could also be about the firetrucks of the past. Our buddy Jay is the master of knowing where a fire truck is or was. He can be apart of the group to help with historical facts of trucks from now and the past. He can also provide pictures and such
Now I don't have the knowledge to offer when it comes to antique fire apparatus, but I know how to assist in running a organization. If this is something maybe some of you guys want to try and put together I don't mind helping. Like I said I am just throwing this out there.
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Post by bmw3014 on Sept 21, 2008 23:19:23 GMT -5
Eng 3011 (57 Mack) won 1st place in Wildwood
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Post by thelurker on Sept 22, 2008 8:20:35 GMT -5
look for 1221 and 3011 to be within exhaust smell of each other this Saturday afternoon.
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Post by WebBoss on Sept 23, 2008 9:13:18 GMT -5
Eng 3011 (57 Mack) won 1st place in Wildwood Congrats! And congrats on 301 getting out for thier calls during the weekend too. |
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Post by WebBoss on Sept 23, 2008 9:22:57 GMT -5
Just examples... no one take offence to this please.
So if it's okay for Burlington Township to take everything out of town and just add Dist 90 to all their calls, then it's okay Camden City to take all their rigs to the Parade and just have Cherry Hill, Collingswood, and Gloucester City cover all their calls... right? What's it matter... we all have mutual aid to depend on right?
I can see a resident understanding why the truck in front of her house is not the one her tax dollars paid for because the home department is at another incident... but I don't see it going over well that the home department was actually 110 miles away with over a million dollars of taxpayer funded equipment at an event known for it's consumption and hyjinxs. Even with the Antiques - that's a lot of wear and tear going all that way... even on a trailer, it's alot. For what??? For a 100 dollar piece of plastic and faux wood with the "Made in Indeionesia" sticker on the underside of it.
Parades building pride went out years ago when fire calls were far and few between. You want to have pride in your department? How about showing up first due in your first due, with a good compliment of QUALIFIED members, and do a damn good job at what your supposed to be doing. When other departments say to you "Good Job!" "Helluva Stop" "Great Grab" "Great Save"... thats what a modern day fireman's pride should come from.
I'm off my soap box
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