why we repeat history,how can we change?

[chief3102]

I'M BAAAACK !!!!! Been busy fighting the establishment and haven't been able to devote much time to the boards.
Here's my take on the subject.

Pussification of the Fire Service

Talk to any old fireman about bunker pants, SCBA or new tools introduced for the past 20 years and an old timer will tell you they are for pusses. I have personally seen two family members who were career Leather Lungs come out of a fire with 2 foot snotsciles hanging from their faces, coughing up black wads of shit for three days. They both were proud that they never used an air pack, and both have had numerous growths removed and heart bypass surgeries. Is it just a coincidence ?, or did the "pussification" factor keep them from using the equipment? Is it worth the burns and health issues down the road to not pay attention to new products or techniques?

Secondly, I don't think anyone here is preaching to always fight a fire from the exterior. But, if there are no lives to be saved by entering a building that is already doomed to be torn down by the insurance company, why the F*&K are we going to put our lives at risk to save 2 walls and the basement??
Be aggressive when aggression is called for and know when to say enough ! Live to fight another day, because the dragon will be waiting for another chance to get your ass.

[ENG27SQ]

Jul 26, 2008 6:47:38 GMT -5 chief3102 said:

Live to fight another day, because the dragon will be waiting for another chance to get your ass.

That's a good quote, as true as it is, I like it.

[FirstDue312]

The main problem it seems with all of this, is everyone's definition of "being aggressive". There's no NFPA definition and never will be. But the key to this aggressiveness needs to be education, preplanning, and just overall situational awareness. If you feel you can go get the beast safely and effectively, then do it. If its not done safely and whoever the IC or Safety Officer didnt step up and say back out, prepare to be talking to a lot of suits and media.

Its be smart. Live to fight another day.
OR
Be dumb. And live to fight the NFPA.

(it rhymed well I thought)

[papacheese]

I think 02 nailed the problem quite well, since many unfortunately equate the word "safe" with "exterior".....a situation I saw coming way back when. Nothing could be further from the truth. Firefighters enter burning buildings on a daily basis, make great stops, and return home none the worse for wear. Aggressive interior attacks work well...when the situation is favorable for a positive outcome.

Like 02 though, I have a deep-seated philosophical problem with sacrificing trained, motived firefighters for little to no benefit...other than getting the poop scared out of us, what exactly was accomplished?

If nothing else, this as well as many other forums and mediums are starting to raise firefighter consciousness about the issue. Not every fire is interior, just as not every fire is exterior...as I alluded earlier, we now how to assess, think, weigh, and decide before committing instead of just blindly rushing in like the old days. To answer the original question that started this thread, in my opinion the process of change is already under way...it's going to be slow, frustrating, and suffer setbacks, but it will eventually prevail. The younger generation will finish what was started through training, education, and just plain common sense.