MDT's

[voyager9]

We're starting the process of getting Mobile Data Terminals for all our first-out apparatus. I'm curious what other departments in the county have/use.

If your department has MDT's, what are they? What vendor, and how do you like them?

[breakingsomemirror]

Evesham has had MDT's in their Command vehicles and first out engines for at least 5 years now. The BLS units received them within the past year or so.

As far as hardware, we have the Panasonic Toughbooks, which are acutally pretty nice. I would recommend them to anybody.

As for the technology itself, I have to be honest and say that my personal opinion is that they are a waste of money in first out apparatus. They are hard to use and work with while responding and can be hard to see at some times. I'd say 95% of the time or greater, I end up just opening the map book or the preplan book and doing it the old fashioned way. It's easier and faster.

For those of you who might be saying, "He just can't change with the times", this is not one of those cases. First, I can say this from having used them on probably at least 1000 calls, if not more, over the past 5 years. Second, I'm not saying they are totally bad. They just are impractical in first out apparatus.

In a Command vehicle or support vehicle that may be used as a Command Post, I think they do have there place and can be valuable. When you have the time to operate them, in a non-moving vehicle and with maybe a little more time, then they can work well.

However, I think there are better ways to spend your money than putting them in the larger, first responding apparatus (engines, ladders, etc.).

That's just my 2 cents. Hope it helps.

[voyager9]

May 30, 2008 10:18:10 GMT -5 breakingsomemirror said:

Evesham has had MDT's in their Command vehicles and first out engines for at least 5 years now. The BLS units received them within the past year or so.

Thanks for the reply! I remember playing with the ones at 221 when we were covering. They seemed to work pretty well, though that was sitting still in the station.

Do you know what software your MDT's use? Do you have the original spec?

again, thanks for the reply.

[thelurker]

All I can tell you about the ones in Cinnaminson is....we're getting them....eventually.

[breakingsomemirror]

Not sure about the original spec. It's been so long, I'd have to see if I can acquire it. I know the original MDT design was a screen and keyboard called a Predator system. The problem was there was like an onboard "server", if you will (sorry, not a computer geek) that was seperate from the monitor/keyboard. In essessence, they were like dummy terminals. Long story short, there were a lot of problems getting the "server" to play nice the with charging system on the trucks. They were always frying. Finally they got smart and went to the Panasonic Toughbooks, where everything is contained in one unit. MUCH better design.

As for the software, it's a program called Firehawk. It has mapping, GPS capability, stand-off markers, many different layers of information. All in all, I don't think it's the greatest program in the world but it's OK. The "search for address" feature blows! It's supposed to recognize parts of a street name (ie, type in "mai" for Main Street and it's supposed to be able to find those close to that spelling - NOT!) but never seems to do a good job of it. Forget trying to find something on Route 73 or 70 if you don't have the exact location, spelled to a "t"!

Honestly, I don't have anything to compare it to because I haven't used any other programs. It's not horrible but I'm sure there's something better out there.

[papacheese]

We've been messing with this in Motown for many years without any appreciable result. While most definitely NOT a technophobe, I agree they can have limited usefulness in a first-out engine. Space is limited enough without trying to show-horn in a MDT, and the software issue remains unresolved even today. I have a passing acquintence with Firehawk, which didn't impress me even a little...it simply wasn't intuitive enough and we experienced the same suck-butt search debacle.

Now, during a long term incident, and with air card access, the value level rises a lot.....with access to databases, websites, etc..

[thelurker]

Actually, I was kinda kidding, but kinda not. The ones we have are going in the Chief's cars and then maybe one in the career engine. Right now they have been getting Acer Touch Screen Tablet PCs and we are using (I think) First Look Pro for the GPS, Mapping, GIS, etc. Right now the mounts are in the Chief's cars. These machines will not have AirCards and will have to be within reach of the wireless router at 201 to update any GIS/Pre-plan info. The GPS thing shows your destination, and a icon where you are, but does not give a suggested route. If anything else sparks my memory, I will add it on.

[papacheese]

The more I examine this issue, the more I think that having Internet access is a critical factor...the amount of resources can you can identify ahead of time, then easily access in a user-friendly type arrangement makes it that much more worthwhile to me. This was one of the chief advantages to the ongoing Firehouse software program the County is hosting. With the software's Occupany Module, you could access your preplans anywhere, any time (provided the aircard doesn't hit a dead spot). Also, the program allows you to attach any type of file to each occupancy, such as pictures or plans...so (in theory), everything would be there at your fingertips.

The GIS thing still has me puzzled; I realize the District 22 crew has committed a lot of time, resources, and their own expertise into getting GIS into street mode, but for many, if not the majority of the other departments, it remains a time and money intensive effort that they unfortunately can't commit to. Personally, I would love to see the County grab this issue and get it expanded and supported through an Internet portal. Granted, we all have something we want to do differently than other jurisdictions, but they already have a excellent staff and infrastructure set up...why not expand it outwards to everyone?

I can't speak for anyone else, only myself...but I have neither the time nor the inclination to start something like that from ground zero...and really don't want to spend the time needed to learn how to use the foundation software...as well as maintain that expertise. If the County organizations put together a proposal, maybe the County would go for it...their GIS Department is pretty damn good now...

[3101]

Jun 3, 2008 21:33:24 GMT -5 @thelurker said:

Actually, I was kinda kidding, but kinda not. The ones we have are going in the Chief's cars and then maybe one in the career engine. Right now they have been getting Acer Touch Screen Tablet PCs and we are using (I think) First Look Pro for the GPS, Mapping, GIS, etc. Right now the mounts are in the Chief's cars. These machines will not have AirCards and will have to be within reach of the wireless router at 201 to update any GIS/Pre-plan info. The GPS thing shows your destination, and a icon where you are, but does not give a suggested route. If anything else sparks my memory, I will add it on.

Dean
Let me know when the stuff is up and running in your command vehicles. I have an evaluation copy of First Look Pro and I like it so far, but I have yet to see it in action in this county.
Thanks

[voyager9]

Jun 4, 2008 12:53:37 GMT -5 papacheese said:

The more I examine this issue, the more I think that having Internet access is a critical factor...

While I think the amount of information available on the Internets is staggering it is also what makes it less then ideal for first-out apparatus. Because of the volume of information, it has to be explicitly organized to make any sense of it. At the same time, because we are Emergency Services, we can't always rely on it being available..

To me the functions of an MDT can be broken down into two areas:
1) Used by officers while responding and for the first 10-15 minutes of an incident. Functions include Maps, Water supply, preplans, ERG and SCBA/PASS integration, etc. These functions have to work whether the MDT has the internet or not. They also have to be intuitive and quick, and clear enough that they can be used in a dark, bouncy front seat.
2) Used by officers for extended duration and more complicated incidents. Functions include customizable/editable map layers, Staging management and also having access to the Internet for other queries.

[breakingsomemirror]

I will agree with some of the other posters that having wireless capability is important, especially for long term operations. Here in da 'Sham, we have a basic wireless system which uploads information while the apparatus is in the station. This is especially useful in certain areas, such as in the BLS. Our rigs have it set up that the website that lists the hospital status is bascially the first thing the crews see when they get in, so they know before they leave the station which local hospitals are open, closed, divert, etc.

Unfortunately, for now, it only works while it's in the station. They are looking into a wireless broadband system that I guess, in theory, would work almost anywhere. Sorry, again, I'm not a technology guru or anything, so please excuse my ignorance!

I guess I shouldn't say that it only works in the station. If you are lucky enough to be on the road and find an open signal, it is possible to log into it and get wireless internet access. So, if you have a fire next to a public library or Starbucks, you might be in good shape!

Fortunately, for as unuser friendly as I think the Firehawk software is, it does allow you to upload the preplans into the system so that you don't need access to the internet to get to them. They are always there.

As far as GIS goes, I will say that Evesham has spent a lot of time and money researching this and I will say that I've been impressed with the results. Granted, I understand that most departments don't have the financial or time resources to commit to this but if you can, it's worth it. If not, you can always reach out to Evesham and talk to us about it. I know we will gladly share what we know with anyone who asks.

As a side note, the County GIS program/office/whatever they are has a LOT of information that is currently available or will be available to fire departments in the county. All you have to do is ask. I know they are working on a 3D based mapping system and have purchased a contract or something that will basically take 360 degree pictures of every building in the county. Yes, EVERY BUILDING, from what I have been told. I've seen the demo of it and quite honestly, it's STUNNINNG! Philly is using it now and it's amazing the clarity and detail of the pictures. I have been told that once the pictures are done and organized and put into the software, it's going to be available to county departments, through the County GIS department. I'm not sure how and when this is going to work but the possibilities are exciting, to be sure.

As a former Chief officer and current career officer, I can't imagine being able to put in an an address and see a full color, 3D picture of the building, a picture that puts anything you currently see on Google Earth to shame! Short of being a live overhead video of the scene (a little too Big Brother to me), it's probably the next best thing. The cool part is that it will be available in this county in the next year or two, from what I understand.