Firefighters Have to get Killed; it's Part of the

[capt311]

This was emailed to me this morning. Share your thoughts!

Firefighters Have to get Killed; it's Part of the Job
Do you agree or disagree?

In 1976, my lieutenant said, "Firefighters have to get killed; it's part of the job."* His statement frightened me. (see article below) Does the fire service and society believe this statement? Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

The major national fire service organizations: NFPA, IAFC, NVFC, NFFF, IAFF, USFA, plus OSHA, NIOSH, and NIST have produced thousands of firefighter sa fety standards, laws, training material, reports, and investigations over the past 31 years. National fire publications, conferences, and campaigns have focused on reducing firefighter injuries and deaths. The federal government mandates ICS training, SCBA testing and training, and NIMS compliance. As a result of 9/11 more federal grant money for apparatus, PPE, equipment, and training has been spent than ever before. State and local fire service organizations conduct countless hours of training and spend millions of dollars on firefighter safety every year.

In 1976, there were 107 line of duty deaths. In 2007, we had 115 line of duty deaths and about 80,000 injuries. The number of deaths and injuries has not changed much over the past 30 years. The reasons for the deaths and injuries have not changed. Because, in spite of all the safety talk and safety programs our safety belief, attitude, and behavior has not changed.

The NIOSH line of duty death studies report th at we do not follow our own safety SOP's, national standards, and training doctrine. We do not use our safety equipment. We do not hold firefighters, officers, or chiefs responsible and accountable when it comes to safety. More fire service personnel are disciplined for being late for work then safety violations. In other words, we tolerate and accept safety misconduct, which can and does result in firefighter death or injury.

In 2004, Martha Stewart was convicted of lying to investigators about a $228,000 stock sale. She served five months in prison and paid a $30,000 fine. The government was sending a message that corporate misconduct would not be tolerated.

In 2007, the City of Los Angeles awarded a firefighter $2.7 million to settle a lawsuit because his brother firefighters put dog food in his spaghetti. Racial misconduct will not be tolerated in the fire service. Societies know how to hold individuals and organizations responsible for behavior that will not be tolerated.

In Charleston, SC, the mayor reports the fire was, "beyond the firefighting capability of any fire department." The fire chief concluded that nothing could have been done differently. South Carolina State regulators found several work place safety violations at the fire that killed nine firefighters. The city paid $3,000 in penalties while not admitting any wrong doing. (Adam Hochberg, "Scrutiny Feeds Firehouse Tensions After Fatal Blaze," National Public Radio, Jan 16, 2008.

In 2007, 12 firefighters were killed in the line of duty without their seat belt on; 300 in the past 30 years. There has been no discipline or penalties or accountability for their deaths.

Our belief, attitude, and behavior reinforce the lieutenant's statement. At the time he did not clarify if he meant firefighter deaths due to: heart attack, vehicle crash, getting hit by a vehicle, building collapse, falling through a floor or roof, flashover or backddraft, lost, trapped, running out of air, falling from a ladder, roof, or apparatus, or trying to rescue a victim. You will have to decide which line of duty deaths are part of the job.

There is little or no accountability, responsibility, or discipline for firefighter death or injury from the fire service, elected officials, or government agencies. There are no consequences for safety misconduct. Because, we have convinced others and ourselves that firefighter death and injury is just part of the job.

Time to Take the Test:

Firefighters have to get killed; it's part of the job.
Circle one answer

Agree
Disagree

There are only two kinds of firefighters who stop learning; those who are dead, and those who will be.

[papacheese]

This is a topic close to my heart and something I absolutely take no prisoners over......

Do they have to die? No.

Will they die? Some will.

There is a HUGE gap between those two statements, one that needs to be fully understood and accepted before anything will ever change.

Until we stop doing dangerous and stupid things under the guise of "Tradition"....

- like getting run over by our own apparatus

- like not wearing SCBA because we're tough guys

- like standing around in roadways we refuse to block

- like entering for a victim that's surely dead

- like standing next to teetering walls

- like freelancing cause you're "cool"

- like speeding to a BS call

- like refusing to wear a seat belt

- like ignoring stop signs and red lights

- like believing we're so good we don't have to train

- like rushing around instead of THINKING

- like believing some things are beyond our ability to control

- like refusing to admit we can't do this job anymore

.....we will continue to die senselessly....

A few months back, I offered the opinion that the catch phrase "Everyone Goes Home" doesn't appeal too much to the stereotypical, hard-as-nails firefighter....and suggested another, much more pointed one: "Live to Fight Another Day".

Think about it...

I believe the time is coming when ICs will be held accountable for the decisions they make. It's no longer acceptable to explain a senseless LODD by saying "That's what we do."

It's committing cultural suicide to say: "What you did was stupid", but at some point, it needs to be done, if nothing else than to wake some people up. The Charleston tragedy is a prime example of this...how in God's name can the chief of a major metropolitan city justify trying to fight fires using 2 1/2 supply hose in the 21st century or refusing to use ICS to maintain command and control over a life-threatening event? His answer: Tradition. His most unbelieveable statement: he wouldn't change anything if he had it to do over again. Insanity!

There will ALWAYS be situations and circumstances that we cannot predict or foresee which results in an LODD. That's a fact of life we all accept when we agree to serve. What I will never accept is a brother or sister dying for NO GOOD REASON OR BENEFIT. Getting smacked by a motorist because the cops don't want to inconvenience the public ranks right up there.

Those of you who religiously read NIOSH and DFS reports know where I'm coming from....too often the death was not only avoidable, but also predictable based on what was known and present at the time of the tragedy.

It's time we started thinking with our brains instead of our balls. I will now apologize for the long-winded rant but never for the passion that drives my statement.

[glow=red,2,300]Be Smart: Live to Fight Another Day[/glow]

[thelurker]

Now why is it that with all these Safety Campaigns, Technology advancements, etc. do we still consistently kill over 100 firemen a year? It may be the culture, but I think the culture has changed a lot in the last 10 years. Maybe we need to examine what Europe does and try to see where they do things differently.

[chief3102]

I think Papa hit the nail on the head with "It's time we started thinking with our brains instead of our balls."

[papacheese]

thelurker said:

Now why is it that with all these Safety Campaigns, Technology advancements, etc. do we still consistently kill over 100 firemen a year? It may be the culture, but I think the culture has changed a lot in the last 10 years. Maybe we need to examine what Europe does and try to see where they do things differently.

Yes, there's has a been a lot of change lately, but the results indicate it isn't making a dent. I have to pinpoint the culture of "acceptable losses" as being the chief culprit. As you pointed out, we have TICs, better PPE, improved SCBA, excellent communications, enhanced water delivery systems, accountability....the list is pretty extensive, yet we keep doing the same stupid stuff, over and over again.

What's the definition of insanity? Doing something over and over again the same way but expecting different results.

Look at any NIOSH report; I can almost recite the recommendations BEFORE reading them....it's that bad.

There's been plenty of time, effort, and money thrown at the problem over the past decade; we know exactly what the issues are, yet can't seem to make the problem disappear.

It's unfortunate but necessary: we need to focus on basic risk management and reinforce smart behaviors rather than dumb but flashy ones. If you don't need to be someplace that's inherently dangerous, why tempt fate? Sooner or later your number's gonna come up when the odds finally run out.

Not to beat a dead horse, but look at Charleston again. You can't tell me that they've been living in a media vacuum for the past ten years; they HAD to know about the problems yet chose not to address them for whatever reason.

Police officers basically face the same issues when involved in a gun incident. Someone impartial investigates, then determines whether the officer exercised good judgment or bad, depending on a host of circumstances. If he screwed up, the officer faces a career crisis...yet a firefighter can continue doing the same exact shit again, over and over.

We've been held to a far lower standard for too many years...

Regardless of compensation allowances, the fire service needs to establish a code of professional ethics, then ruthlessly reinforce them. ALL officers and supervisors should be made to demonstrate knowledge and competency in applying the basic principles of risk management to their decision making process. If you can't tell the difference between a good or bad risk, then you have no business betting your life - or your crew's life - on the outcome.

Stop the macho crap and use your head.

[glow=red,2,300]Live to fight another day....[/glow]

[smiley]

Gotta agree with everyone. Papacheese you made a good point. Correction you made excellent points.

[capt311]

My thoughts are we don’t have to die, we have to be smart. The days of “go get it boys” are coming to an end. Construction! Construction! Construction! Need I say more? Okay I will: today's materials burn much differently than materials found in homes 20 to 30 years ago. We are currently at 26 LODD in America, and in the UK, from 1958 to 2007 they lost a total of 15. Think about it! Coffee pots, mattresses and pillows, all made of synthetic materials and it takes just a couple of minutes to become fully engulfed. Synthetic materials burn hotter and faster and this has decreased the time that a person has to get out of a fire and with the new light weight construction there is a total of eight minutes before collapse. We have to change our thought process when arriving on scene.

[papacheese]

Excellent points, Cap...the rules of the game have changed, so the culture or "tradition" has to change. Stop trying to prove your manhood by doing stupid crap that makes absolutely no sense. Stop applauding people who burn their helmets and PPE as "real firefighters"....when I see that kind of behavior, I ask myself if that person was an officer, would they give a good God damn about their fellow crew members and recognize that the situation just ain't worth getting someone killed?

Ours is an "action-oriented" task....a physical one that demands a lot. What's changed most over the past twenty years is that the job now demands, more than ever, that we THINK just as much as ACT.

[glow=red,2,300]Be Smart: Live to Fight Another Day![/glow]

[voyager9]

I think this profession is inherently dangerous and because of that there will always be the risk of injury or death. That doesn't mean we HAVE to die or that we should make the odds worth through our own stupidity.

I have a serious problem with that quote "Firefighters have to get killed", especially from an OFFICER. Its way too ambivalent, too laze faire. Would you want this guy in charge of RIT or the IC? "Lt, go get those trapped men", "Eh, why bother? FF's have to die".. WTF. One of the biggest jobs of an officer is to look out for the safety of his men.

Now, I do think that a paraphrasation of his quote is more appropriate, "Firefighters will die, it comes with the job".. the same way some police officers, soldiers, and off shore fisherman will die. What we do is dangerous. Yet we need to do it. Our responsibility is to do it as safely as possible. The goal should be to fit somewhere in between the yard gnomes and helmet burners..