When Is It Time?

[papacheese]

As our Department HSO, I regularly have to deal with member injuries and/or health related issues that could have an impact on their ability to perform the job safely. While a lot of the issues are fairly simple, there are always a few complicated ones that need some forethought. One thing I've noticed is that ALL of us seem to have a remarkble capacity to delude ourselves into thinking we're OK and not a danger to ourselves and others, whether the issue is prescription drugs that could or could not alter our judgment abilities to muscle/bone injuries that impair movement. It's amazing to what degree some people will go to in order to jump on the BRT...

Here's my question....when is it time to say: "I can't do this safely and effectively..."? Not necessarily forever, mind you, but even temporarily. Whenever a member is assuring me that they're OK, I try to use the criteria of whether I think that they present a danger to others...it's one thing to knowingly decide to take a chance on injuring yourself, but do you have the right to put another member in jeopardy?

[Kramer]

also as a sidenote...not to be a "young punk kid" but for the old guys that just stick around(everyone has at least one)...when is it time to "hang it up"

[papacheese]

kramer411 said:

also as a sidenote...not to be a "young punk kid" but for the old guys that just stick around(everyone has at least one)...when is it time to "hang it up"

I'll kick-start the conversation a little here...

I'm 53 years young and to be perfectly candid, not the same as I was twenty years ago...no matter HOW much I wish I was. With advancing age comes the usual complaints: loss of reaction time, diminished hearing and eyesight, as well as other usual assortment of maladies. Individually, they don't seem to impact anything too much; collectively they add up to a couple less steps. The real question is this: will those "couple of steps" make a difference to me or my fellow crew members someday?

The answer: possibly.

Firefighting is the only organized, intensely aerobic activity that doesn't allow a "warm-up" period, and when the smoke eventually clears twenty or so years from now, this fact will prove to be a significant factor in why we die. I once had a doctor tell me that the most damaging thing we can do to ourselves is go from a dead sleep to hyper-active in a short amount of time, that the massive adreneline dump that happens eventually takes a fateful toll on our tickers. Like most things, the effect isn't immediate, so all of us tend to file the thought away somewhere back in our head with the mental note that we'll deal with it another day. Unfortunately for some of us and our families, that day arrives far too soon or unexpectedly.

Now add our modern-day list of fire-related poisons into the health equation....has anyone else noticed that the chief reason for cleaning your PPE isn't to look pretty but to get all that methyl-ethyl cancer causing crap away from our systems? Does anyone really believe that even a little whiff of plastic generated smoke doesn't do some kind of long term harm? All that exotic crap HAS to be taking a toll on us....again, not all at once, but in tiny bits, little by little, accumulating and brewing inside us over the years.

All of us love the fire service passionately or else we wouldn't be here..the marginal lawn ornaments eventually fade away, leaving behind the battle-scarred gamers...the ones who give so much, yet find it to hard to say: "I've become more of a risk than a benefit".

What gets me are the ones who KNOW they're a risk, yet blithly continue to respond, their internal time bombs ticking relentlessly away...look at the LODD stats, then do a little digging. Almost 40% of the cardiac related LODD's knew they had heart problems, yet stubbornly refused to hang up their helmets.

Am I being too hard-assed here?

I for one don't worry about myself...but instead about the others I might take with me.

Do I have that right??

[Kramer]

as long as your not more of a hindrance and hazard than an asset on the scene your ok...the ones that tick me off are the ones that can barely get into/out of a truck, have trouble seeing hearing, and insist they "have been doing it for years" so they "are fine and know what to do..." Unfortunately they cant and dont. the service has changed since they were my age. i hate to try to tell them this, because then im a punk trying to take over and i dont respect the past and they have seen more work than i ever will and all that stuff. im sorry to try to tell the truth to these guys, but i dont feel safe with them.


im stepping off of my box now...rant over

[ENG27SQ]

IMHO....if the person can still do the job safely,productively and in the time needed, by all means keep up the good work. However, I know there are people who just let things happen as they happen, knowing they could've said something to prevent it, whether it be a safety issue on a call, or an argument back at the house cause one guy thinks the other did something wrong.

A lot of people still think it is the 1980s when "firefighting was easy" so to speak and well, it's just not anymore. I don't believe firefighting was ever easy. Some continue to say they want the position but don't put the time in, show up enough or keep up on training and that's a sign to just step up and step down,it's for the good of the department.

With Kramers comment " because then im a punk trying to take over and i dont respect the past and they have seen more work than i ever will and all that stuff. im sorry to try to tell the truth to these guys, but i dont feel safe with them. "

He's absolutely right. I'll be one of the first to say, these types of officers, are stubborn, they think if they step down, they will get ripped on, so what? Is it going to be safer to get some fresh blood in the line officer position or keep the same person who isn't doing a safe/productive job? Possibly, but that new person won't attain everything overnight, it's gonna be a bumpy road but hey, this job is bumpy, we just gotta hang on and push for the best.

With that said, my rants concluded.

[Kramer]

its not even just officers though...its more of a culture with that generation...whether they are drivers or cheifs it doesnt matter. if you cant do it right dont try

[voyager9]

I can see both sides of it.. here's a point of comparison to Kramer's example:

I have a few driver-only guys on my crew. They've long ago determined that they can't go interior anymore for various reasons. They are still undeniably the best drivers and pump operators I've ever seen. Hands down. In addition, while they aren't on the front line anymore, they know a huge amount about the fire services. 30 years of strategy, tactics, building construction, operations..etc. Since I'm a relative new comer to the service I intend to learn as much from them as I can. Its a perfect example of someone knowing and adjusting to their limitations but still being a very productive member of the department.

[Kramer]

voyager9 said:

I can see both sides of it.. here's a point of comparison to Kramer's example:

I have a few driver-only guys on my crew. They've long ago determined that they can't go interior anymore for various reasons. They are still undeniably the best drivers and pump operators I've ever seen. Hands down. In addition, while they aren't on the front line anymore, they know a huge amount about the fire services. 30 years of strategy, tactics, building construction, operations..etc. Since I'm a relative new comer to the service I intend to learn as much from them as I can. Its a perfect example of someone knowing and adjusting to their limitations but still being a very productive member of the department.

see now thats a good example of this arguement. at one of my stations we have a driver that just shouldnt do it anymore...takes too many risks and has too many close calls. he also has trouble pumping the truck at the correct pressures...the chiefs just wont do anything and he got fed up when i asked him to slow down and relax so he left the call since he lived right near it...theres what im used to as far as not knowing when to hang it up

[Kramer]

now just to clarify my stance...in no way am i trying to be negative towards all of our older brothers in the service. they have very valuable knowledge and whenever i get the chance i pick their brains for info. its just the ones that can no longer do their job but think they can that really get on my nerves...

[papacheese]

Before this turns into an age-related discussion, bear in mind that there's a lot of "younger" people walking around with health-related problems that put themselves and others at risk...it not just us oldsters.

Voyager's comments hit the nail on the head: I'm not advocating elimination, just an appropriate readjustment of duties, which many of us seem to do on our own anyway.