Fire House Users vs ESP

[tootall]

Just wanted to get a quick feel of who out there is using what...are you using ESP or Firehouse. If your using ESP will you being going to Firehouse starting Jan 1st with the county.

More info on Firehouse to come once I have a few more minutes.

[thelurker]

We use ESP, and I heard that we will continue using ESP as long as possible. But again that's what I HEARD,not fact.

[3105]

I'll offer the following for anyone sitting on the fence....

Motown uses ESP, which is OK except that the appearance and functionality hasn't been updated in years, making it more difficult for non-firefighters to understand and use it. After looking at the Firehouse version, I'm sold on it's enhanced features and expandability...it is obviously a program that is far more user-friendly and intuitive...I'm already looking forward to switching over.

Software is not unlike automobiles....they can easily become "dated" unless constantly improved and changed to meet the user's needs. Firehouse appears to have listened to their end users and made the necessary changes to remain at the forefront of their industry. The Windows-like menus and control button are far more familiar.

[thelurker]

No I am not sitting on the fence, because I just have to do what my department says, but I would like to offer up that I feel ESP is much easier to use than firehouse. I have used both, and I just liked the feel and operation of ESP much better. Just my .02. When will the roll out be getting underway?

[3105]

The program will be rolled out in phases, the first of which, NFIRs and Staff, will be available beginning 1/1/08 with other modules such as Training and Occupancy in March and Prevention/Inspection in June.

One of the main aspects of Firehouse that I find the most appealing is the Occupancy module, a feature that ESP either doesn't have or we don't have on ours. When integrated into the Inspections module, this feature offers the most comprehensive and, in my opinion, most readily updatable data base that any chief officer with a laptop and an aircard can easily access in the field...including all previous incidents at that address AND all inspections as well as pictures and essential building intelligence like size, volume, fire loading, utilities, haz-mats....

For us here in Motown, this is a VITAL component of the software; we've struggled for years to find a workable system and method of gathering and distributing all the friggin data we accumulate about structures. As a case in point, I have to copy every EPCRA survey form I receive, the methodically installed them in three ring binders in two engines and three chief's cars in some kind of easy-to-understand format that allows access to the info quickly.

It ain't easy, trust me.

This is not condemning ESP....it's just (to me) a realization of how really useful a fully integrated software program can be...made even MORE useful because the County will operate it and can afford to purchase both the hardware and redundency needed to assure reliablity. If we had to pay for the software and all the hardware necessary to make this access possible, it would have cost a hellva lot more.

[thelurker]

3105 said:

As a case in point, I have to copy every EPCRA survey form I receive, the methodically installed them in three ring binders in two engines and three chief's cars in some kind of easy-to-understand format that allows access to the info quickly.

I wondered what those things were for, I've only ever seen them get pitched in the trash.

[tootall]

I have used both ESP(37) and Firehouse (27) and have to say Firehouse hands down is superior.

With the new county system and the Firehouse system going live via a county owned server we are one step closer to being on the same page as the cops with computers and the info we need at our finger tips in the apparatus.

I strongly urge all department to participate in the first year and see what you think...it costs you nothing. We all want the best technology at our finger tips...this is the step in the right direction.

[3105]

I think Carl Bittenbender's e-mail yesterday mentioned that about half of the County has signed up for the system...a nice start, but I wish more would participate.

Again, not to beat a dead horse, but each department can allow other departments limited "read-only" access to their occupancy module...a great way for incoming mutual aid companies to "preview" the job and what they can expect to encounter. If the County then downloads geographical data into the system and each town ties it to a hydrant, suddenly the incoming units can see where the next available hydrant or water source is. Admittedly we're not to that point yet, but with this program the capability is there for a future enhancement like this.

[voyager9]

I think this interconnection is very interesting and the amount of data that could be shared should be very useful in the field. One thing that can't be overlooked is the daily operation of the software. It may be able to do 1000 things very well but if it can't do what we need it to do on a daily basis then people aren't going to use it.
For example, Firehouse (forget which version we use) has some pretty glaring annoyances when it comes to entering simple runs.. mandatory fields are spread out all over the place, multiple places where the same data could (but shouldn't!) be entered..etc.
The advanced features sound very nice but lets also make the system simple for the 99.5% of the runs we do where times, numbers, and narrative are usually all that's required.

[voyager9]

And one other thing, lets make sure any shared run data is available as soon as possible. One problem I have with the way we share things today is that we may have to wait an hour or more for a run to be entered (usually when the last unit clears).

For example, this is annoying when we have a 3am EMS call, get recalled in route, but have to wait until EMS clears the ER for Central to make the times and numbers available. I can call and get the numbers manually, but then someone has to merge the two runs.

[JDub]

Have the put a CD or DVD or something out there to show a demo on how it works and how it can be manipulated to each department's use? I saw a initial paper that was put out there but nothing since then.

[chief3102]

Since I retired, not part of the decision making anymore. The main question I have is "will Central be continuing to support this, or will this be another bill of goods sold to us like rip n' run,
new world, etc..."?

[WebBoss]

Rip and Run... now there was something that really is a useful tool if people got off there hind-ends and forced the county to sort it out.

All the tech gizmos area great, but Rip and Run is such a K.I.S.S. theroy idea that there's no reason we shouldn't have it across the entire county.

[3105]

I think we need to put things in the proper perspective here...what's different is the capabilities, not necessarily the software manufacturer. The only reason why we're focused on Firehouse is because their product has the capability built in, unlike ESP. Is it perfect? No. Is it expandable? Yes.

Another factor that can't be overlooked is the recent (relatively) availabilty of air cards that will allow IC's to access a databank of info. We were looking into the concept here in Motown, but when you start to add up the costs of hardware and software, then add in the training and maintenance, it gets very expensive...and even then our existing software would not make the task any easier. The fact that the County has the personnel, resources, and financing to set up a very workable system makes a HUGE difference in the equation.

As far as useability, all of us can find something we don't like on any program. The answer to that is simply training and experience...remember all the hoopla that went on when the County went over to the trunking system? People were tearing their hair out lamenting how it won't work, people won't change, it's difficult...etc. Fast forward to today and the level of discontent has dropped considerably. Again, nothing's perfect, but I try to look past what I think of as minor irritations and ask myself if the end result is worth it. Personnally, I can save oodles of effort and hours laboriously copying and distributing EPCRA surveys and instead post them one time for all to access. How can that be a bad thing?

As far as rip-n-run is concerned, from what I understand this software brings us one step closer to having a Central/end user interface where the incident number and description will be displayed on the apparatus MDT before we respond. Granted, I take that assertion with a huge grain of salt, but in some ways, it makes perfect sense to me...

[Reverend]

We were just advised last week that The Hill is switching to Firehouse software next year. This after a long relationship with ESP. Firehouse is far superior and with all of our gps capabilities increasing it has to be done. They apparently are working out so that CC dispatch logs in an incident it automatically looks it up on the rigs computer so you dont have to, then at completion of the call generates a parrtial nfirs report for the officer to complete. Wild huh

[3105]

Rev - I'll double check with my son, but I think what you're describing is currently being benchmarked with Pennsauken EMS, where he works part time....it sounds exactly like he's described to me. According to him, when they're dispatched, they get in the rig and the info is already there on the MDT....they then hit a preassigned key to indicate they're responding, another when they arrive, and a third key when they're available, etc...thus cutting down on repetitive radio transmissions.

As far as the partially generated NFIRS report, that will be done here too...directly doanloaded from Central's CAD system

[WebBoss]

This almost sounds too good to be true.

What sounds dissapointing to me so far in the project is that the end users (fire companies) will have to bite the bullet for the hardware in the rigs. While this is ok for the departments that have the financial support to do so, it's is disheartening considering that we had a discussion on this site a month or 2 ago about companies not being able to afford to send firefighters to BCESTC classes.

Just like the radio system, I think this is something that the county should work towards making a county-wide system, with them providing the equipment and support. We know they can afford it, it's only a matter of asking the right person at the right time. I can just imagine that the monthy cost for service on an air-card for 1 engines laptop in some of our slowest stations could cost more then fuel for the month in the same rig. See my point? It's almost not fair across the board.

[RngrVnc33]

3105 said:

Rev - I'll double check with my son, but I think what you're describing is currently being benchmarked with Pennsauken EMS, where he works part time....it sounds exactly like he's described to me. According to him, when they're dispatched, they get in the rig and the info is already there on the MDT....they then hit a preassigned key to indicate they're responding, another when they arrive, and a third key when they're available, etc...thus cutting down on repetitive radio transmissions.

Chief your on the money, would be great to bring this to Burlington County, sounds like endless possibilities and applications

[thelurker]

admin said:

This almost sounds too good to be true.

What sounds dissapointing to me so far in the project is that the end users (fire companies) will have to bite the bullet for the hardware in the rigs. While this is ok for the departments that have the financial support to do so, it's is disheartening considering that we had a discussion on this site a month or 2 ago about companies not being able to afford to send firefighters to BCESTC classes.

Just like the radio system, I think this is something that the county should work towards making a county-wide system, with them providing the equipment and support. We know they can afford it, it's only a matter of asking the right person at the right time. I can just imagine that the monthy cost for service on an air-card for 1 engines laptop in some of our slowest stations could cost more then fuel for the month in the same rig. See my point? It's almost not fair across the board.

Exactly why neither of my companies will have laptops or aircard in the vehicles. Chiefs cars maybe...eventually, but don't hold your breath on apparatus.

[JDub]

Chief Cars Put out fires dean lol. But we have two laptops....on in 2000 truck and one for our GIS guy to use.