Make The Call #42

[papacheese]

I'm sure many of you are going to roll your eyes when I say this, but wasn't this outcome predictable based on the smoke read in the intital picture? It's a very good example of how weather affects smoke, cooling and turning white almost instantly after it leaves the structure. Looking closer, the smoke just inside that picture window is of the thick, dark, nasty, high-heat, fuel-rich variety...which also means that if there's a victim anywhere on the A-B side, the survival profile is extremely low.

I like voyager's thoughts about VES the D side bedrooms... provided the garage shows a vehicle parked inside. If I have a young, inexperienced crew, I might forego that tactic, since in my opinion (and mine only), VES is a technique that requires more than FF1 experience. To me, one of the key elements of VES is: "You gotta know when it's time to go"

[thelurker]

Yes the smoke showed it, but damn that was fast. Unfortunately, we don't know how long that has looked like that. Been to plenty of fires where you see the smoke change, and go..UH OH, thats flashover smoke, and then it still takes a good while to actually flash. Also in that smoke, there looks to be some brown...does this mean it has hold of the structure or is that the cold weather messing with it?

[papacheese]

thelurker said:

Yes the smoke showed it, but damn that was fast. Unfortunately, we don't know how long that has looked like that. Been to plenty of fires where you see the smoke change, and go..UH OH, thats flashover smoke, and then it still takes a good while to actually flash. Also in that smoke, there looks to be some brown...does this mean it has hold of the structure or is that the cold weather messing with it?

My guess: the roof rafters. Temperature affects the smoke travel and color in the sense that it will turn it whiter as it cools, especially early stage smoke that's full of condensation. Brown is indicative of raw, untreated wood off-gassing BEFORE it ignites...it ain't burning yet, but it's really close.

I agree with your comment regarding time...I've experienced the same thing but realize that there's other, unseen factors preventing it from flashing (like self-venting somewhere else in the structure). To me the important thing is the warning it provides, IF you're paying attention to it.

[voyager9]

papacheese said:

I like voyager's thoughts about VES the D side bedrooms... provided the garage shows a vehicle parked inside. If I have a young, inexperienced crew, I might forego that tactic, since in my opinion (and mine only), VES is a technique that requires more than FF1 experience. To me, one of the key elements of VES is: "You gotta know when it's time to go"

After seeing some of the other pictures, especially the one showing C/D side, I need to refine my thoughts. It shows some pretty ugly smoke pushing from C, with a little from D. I would still assign VES based on the original sizeup but expect the crew to abort if they find that thick/heavy/hot/yuk smoke throughout. (just realized that's kind of a yeah-duh statement)

[voyager9]

From firefighterspot.com

"Note, the call came through the neighbor, reporting that there was a small bedroom fire. Upon arrival of myself and my Chief, the home owner was walking out the front door and the structure was well involved. Also there were two rooms in the house that were completely untouched because the doors were shut."

[walshy15]

Another point to take into account is the weight of the snow
on the roof. If the fire happened to be in the attic, the house might not
be able to take the weight of the snow plus the weight of 1-2 firefighters.
Just something to keep in mind