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Post by papacheese on Mar 27, 2008 11:05:02 GMT -5
What I'd like to do with this one is ask all the the gnarled, seasoned vets out there to sit on their collective hands and let some of the younger firefighters tell us what they see and what they would do. Let's take it a step further: at the point this picture was taken, you have the following either on location or responding: One (1) engine company with three firefighters on location One (1) engine company with two firefighters responding, five minutes out One (1) truck company with two responding, two minutes out. RIT company dispatched but not signed on yet. The structure is located in an area with hydrants. It is Tuesday, February 5th, 0955 hours Based on the situation, what you see, and the resources available, make a strategic call, then outline the tactics you would use.  Photo by Eli Gill |
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Post by voyager9 on Mar 27, 2008 12:11:09 GMT -5
One (1) engine company with three firefighters on location My first question would be where did the 4th firefighter come from? |
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Post by bcliff10 on Mar 27, 2008 12:17:08 GMT -5
Thats alot of different smoke to read
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Post by FirstDue312 on Mar 27, 2008 12:26:09 GMT -5
Lot of different things to consider, but I'll give it a try...
Strategy: Transitional
360! Especially with fire visible on all sides but Delta.
All companies in service. Get 2 more RIT's on the way, 2 more engines, and a rescue or another ladder.
Have the engine company currently on location bring the big gun (the 2.5 smoothbore) and hold for two in two out. Place the 2.5 in service from the exterior knocking back the fire and buying yourself some time to see if this house is worth entering. Have the truck company pull up in front of the house and send its crew forward to ladder the roof and cut some vent holes, especially with the weight of the snow on that roof, it is just trapping all that different color smoke, but also be extra careful on that roof due to the added weight. Get the aerial ready and in position in case of defensive operations. Have the third arriving engine hit another hydrant and lay in and supply themselves and the truck company.
Then take the 2.5 through the front door if the fire has darkened down thanks to initial exterior operations and push this fire back where it came from. Have the second engine company stretch and bring another 2.5 to back up the attack crew. Coordinate with the truck crew for coordinated venting to push this back where it came from.
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ENG27SQ
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Post by ENG27SQ on Mar 27, 2008 18:54:38 GMT -5
I cant really make my opinions here. I've seen the photos of the entire call so it'd be like "cheating" for me, LOL.
Thats just the arrival of Eli...kid takes some incredible photos. I have the rest of the call saved. Once this gets beat up enough I'll post'em, pending papa wants me to.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Mar 27, 2008 21:37:45 GMT -5
No need to cut the roof on a single family dwelling unless fire has entered the attic space (especially with the added weight of the snow). Horizontal vent is very effective and is less manpower and time intensive. Get the place opened up and make an aggressive interior attack. I would go with a 1 3/4" hand-line. With the lack of manpower, it will be very hard for a 3 man attack crew to move a 2 1/2" effectively. Also the size and most likely the layout of the home will make a 2 1/2" line hard to move even with a larger crew. Combined the second engine and the first due truck to make up the truck company (4 men).
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Post by thelurker on Mar 30, 2008 6:05:29 GMT -5
I have a mind blower for you. The driveway has been recently shoveled, but there is no evidence of vehicle traffic on it. This tells me that the old couple that lives here may still be inside. The FF who is Chauffing today is gonna put his gear and a pack on, as is the Chief in his pretty white hat. There's my 2 out.. We are going to put a 1-3/4 in-service to protect the bedroom hallway, and and the crew of 2 is going to make it happen by splitting up and getting a primary search of the bedroom hallway done and keeping the fire in check. I know splitting up is wrong, but sometimes it needs to be done. Also, if you stay in voice contact, you aren't truly split up. When this is done, the truck is there, and performing outside vent on the A/B, B, and B/C area. Now they are 2 out, and the interior crew is gonna knock the crap out of the fire. When 3rd engine gets here, they can relieve the nozzle team. Hopefully in the future, this area will increase their grids to give them a better shot at having a good staffing level.
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Post by walshy15 on Mar 30, 2008 17:28:48 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this could happen around here but could the
hydrants be frozen? it's still relatively early in the morning and looks
like a cold cloudy day? What would happen if the hydrants were frozen?
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Post by papacheese on Mar 31, 2008 5:22:41 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this could happen around here but could the hydrants be frozen? it's still relatively early in the morning and looks like a cold cloudy day? What would happen if the hydrants were frozen? Good question, Matty...although I personally haven't seen a frozen hydrant in the past, it does happen more times than you might think. Since water is our primary extinguishing agent, we aren't going to get a lot done without it....meaning what little we have (tank) will need to be used judiciously until the follow up engine companies can locate a viable water source. As Lurker suggested, maybe establishing a protective line to shield firefighters conducting a primary search....if it proves negative, going defensive until such time that you have a good water source established. |
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Post by papacheese on Mar 31, 2008 5:28:46 GMT -5
Since voyager correctly identified my lack of counting skills, and Lurker had a really good recommendation for use of existing personnel, this would be a good time to discuss the only TITO exemption: when a rescue is needed.
The need to keep two firefighters "out" is not in effect when a rescue situation is presented....maybe someone should take a quick peek in the garage windows to see if the car is in there before deciding. A quick glance at the picture doesn't reveal any overwhelming evidence of someone being inside, but as Lurker said, the cleaned driveway is a good clue, along with the time of day and other telltales. This is among the most difficult of decisions for an IC...there's no slam dunk decision here.
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Post by thelurker on Mar 31, 2008 7:19:41 GMT -5
boy, i'm glad I wasnt the boss on this one, after I wrote my reply. I went surfing on the net and found the rest of the pics of this one. That would have been a bad day for me.
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Post by voyager9 on Mar 31, 2008 7:41:11 GMT -5
Going with the manpower as specified (3-man crew) and continue Lurker's good point about rescue. I may opt for VES starting on the D-side with the limited manpower on the 1st Engine. The fire appears to be moving Right-to-Left so the bedrooms could be relatively clear.
Eng 1: 2-man crew VES the bedrooms while Driver establishes water supply
Eng 2: pulls line from Eng 1 and makes ready for entry of front door. They are the 2-out until T1 arrives. Become the attack crew.
T1: Becomes 2-out and performs OV. Vent the Division B/C when Attack Crew locates fire.
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hp4l
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Post by hp4l on Mar 31, 2008 9:14:34 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this could happen around here but could the hydrants be frozen? it's still relatively early in the morning and looks like a cold cloudy day? What would happen if the hydrants were frozen? I've never seen a hydrant freeze but I have run into a problem with getting the caps off because they were frozen. I've seen some companies keep flares in their hydrant bags with the wrenches. You can use the flare to melt snow and/or ice on the caps and get it open. |
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ENG27SQ
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Post by ENG27SQ on Mar 31, 2008 11:26:06 GMT -5
boy, i'm glad I wasnt the boss on this one, after I wrote my reply. I went surfing on the net and found the rest of the pics of this one. That would have been a bad day for me. You saw the rest of it eh Deano? She turned into hell right away didn't it? |
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Post by thelurker on Mar 31, 2008 16:37:07 GMT -5
boy, i'm glad I wasnt the boss on this one, after I wrote my reply. I went surfing on the net and found the rest of the pics of this one. That would have been a bad day for me. You saw the rest of it eh Deano? She turned into hell right away didn't it? yea it was like an instant shit sandwich..for those crews |
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ENG27SQ
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Post by ENG27SQ on Mar 31, 2008 22:41:02 GMT -5
You saw the rest of it eh Deano? She turned into hell right away didn't it? yea it was like an instant shit sandwich..for those crews Shit sandwich isnt the word....that took a right on the one way road to "Ohhhhhh SHITVILLE" haha. Here's the rest for those who PM'd me in request....  Eli Gill Photo...again this kid shoots some amazing work! |
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ENG27SQ
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Post by ENG27SQ on Mar 31, 2008 22:41:49 GMT -5
...  Eli Gill Photo |
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ENG27SQ
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Post by ENG27SQ on Mar 31, 2008 22:42:08 GMT -5
 Eli Gill Photo |
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ENG27SQ
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Post by ENG27SQ on Mar 31, 2008 22:42:29 GMT -5
Last of his shots...which is pretty effing neat!  Eli Gill Photo |
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Post by thelurker on Mar 31, 2008 23:49:44 GMT -5
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