Make The Call #35

[papacheese]

Submitted by Vince....a GREAT Reading Smoke shot as well as a strategical and tactical problem to consider.



Parameters: you have two engines responding with a total of six (6) firefighters...the truck company is perhaps ten minutes away. Neighbors are uncertain if anyone is home; there is an unidentified car in the alloted parking space.

Make the Call: Offensive, Transitional, Defensive, then justify your reasoning. REMEMBER: There is no single right or wrong answer, only individual perspectives based on too many factors to list.

[thelurker]

2-story end of the row, smoke showing division 2. Go around the back and look to see, but that smoke is black as night...probably petroleum based fire and maybe a mattress off...no smoke from the exposure yet, so this is and OFFENSIVE attack. Probably still room and contents.

Assignments - E1 lay in, 1-3/4 to division 2
E2 pick up the plug, pull a back up line off E1 and
protect the stairs and means of egress for E1.
T1 Open the roof and OV, Then get in there and start
getting that cockloft open to keep it from
running the row.

Strike the Second-
E3- 1-3/4 Line to Exposure
E4- Water supply and Back up E3
T2- Pull the common walls and ceilings on Division 2

RIT - 2 RITs 1 for each structure

[FirstDue312]

I'll go with offensive on this.


Upon arrival, place all companies in service, getting 2 RIT's and at least another truck and 2 engines to the scene.
1st Due Engine go with the Vent/Enter/Search because of unknown vics home and strange car in driveway. (though this is a controversial tactic i feel it might be the best to use here)
2nd Due Engine hit the plug and stretch the 1 3/4 to the 2nd division to protect the V/E/S crew and try to get a knock on this fire which I think is more than a room and contents.
Once the truck arrives, vertically ventilate to get some of that thick black shit flowing upwards.
3rd Engine move to exposure C open up the attic and check for extension through there.
2nd Truck, inspection holes on exposure C

[gotwork]

I will go with OFFENSIVE.

Possible victims. Has not gotten into the attic or adjoining dwelling.

E1 - Lay supply on way in. Place the companies in service. Stretch 2" to division 2 (obviously make sure there is no extension or obstacle on 1) and hit it hard and open up walls and attic. Crew will search division 2 while knock down is going on. Driver will set the pump and get ladder to divsion 2 (break out window with ladder when crew is ready).

E-2 Grab the plug and send crew forward. Crew will strech backup line and perform search of division 1 while protecting egress.

T-1 continue overhaul and perform secondary searches. Vertical ventilation may be necessary if initial attack is unsuccessful or extension is found in attic area.

This is all based on what the picture shows from that angle. Tactics could change if division "C" is not in good shape. This should be a quick knock and open up job, but there's always Mr. Murphy and his laws. The end of the row works in our favor.

[JDub]

Offensive

E1- PLACE IT IN SERVICE Lay in and after doing a 360 i would also vent, enter, search. Complete a Primary search and get out. Depending on the T1 ETA E1 goes on the roof to do a small cut at least to open it up. Also they will grab the second line and advance into the interior.

E2- Pick up the lay while crew goes in with 1 3/4 to protect the stairs after primary search is completed E2 will go get the fire.

T1- when it gets there they got to open that roof up also throw ground ladders for egress.

Due to E1 placing it in service you should get more companies coming.

E3- Into the exposure to either stop spread or prevent spread.

R1- A side for hose team.

R2- C side

Establish Manpower pool with any left over apparatus.

Depending on the amount of apparatus you will get from putting into service depends on if you should call a Second Alarm. Personally, I think we could hold with a single alarm as long as I am not IC.

[papacheese]

There are a couple of factors that make me lean towards Transitional.....

1) That's the nasty, really ugly smoke called "Black Fire", a very firm pre-flashover indicator. It has enough volume, velocity (pressure) and density to give me pause....one of the primary purposes of Reading Smoke is to be able to predict "hostile fire events"....things that go "woosh" in the smoke. I need to revise my program to include the notation that with very few exceptions, the dark smoke is not just petroleum based, but primarily an indication that is VERY hot and fuel-rich (ie: ready to light off). Another sign of bad ju-ju is the smoke's consistency: that soft, velvety texture we're all familiar with.

2) Venting isn't going to make an appreciable difference - it already has full horizonal ventilation, which makes it that much more imperative that we make a cautious approach up the stairs.

3) I tend to look at things as being primarily time-driven; it seems to me that it takes far longer to get something accomplished on a fireground than we would ordinarily suspect....even something as simple as stretching an attack line or having it charged. Here's my point: what will that smoke be like in the five minutes it takes to initiate a proper attack? Better? The same? Worse? I tend to believe worse.

4) The Germans have a word for "decisive moment": Schwerpunkt. Our Schwerpunkt will be when the attack crew begins to make the stairway...in my scenario, the attack crew will need to keep all their antennas up and dialed in as they go up the steps....the chance of that room lighting off grows more likely with each passing minute; I don't want it lighting off while they're making their approach. Again - my opinion is based on the smoke read...it ain't pretty.

OK...so here's a novel idea that will no doubt stir up a controversy: while that attack crew is masking up, why not direct a stream into the open window with the intention of lowering the temperature in the room, thereby buying the attack crew a little time and flashover-avoidance insurance? You have the line...and a very obviously open window....why not tilt the odds in YOUR favor instead of the fire's? We need to think outside the box when confronted with situations like this

Another thought: regardless of whether there's a victim in there or not, performing a search operation in this situation without a hand line is a certain kamikaze mission.....IF there is a vic, that smoke is telling me the room(s) are incredibly hot, lowering the chances of survivability.

Another Reading Smoke factor that lurker touched on: the C side bedrooms...while not presently showing anything worrisome, remember that what happens in one "compartment" will have a definite effect on the adjacent one...it doesn't take a lot of imagination to picture the C side bedrooms lighting off AFTER the A side rooms go ballistic.

All things considered, I'm a very firm "Transitional"...to me, this in not a slam-dunk Offensive but a very definite "tweener" that has not reached it's terminal phase yet...we just don't want to be a part of that.

[hp4l]

I like the idea of hitting the fire with a deck gun while crews get ready to go in, if you have a water supply. Engine 1 needs to lay in and have Engine 2 on their @$$. Of course, a hydrant in the front yard would be nice but rare.

[BIGDOG]

Let the D/O hit the second floor with the wagon pipe until the hose line is about to advance. ( keep it tamed)

Eng 1 1- ¾ to division 2 and hit it hard
Eng 2 secure a water supply search for victims 2nd 1- ¾
Truck 1 start hooking and checking for extension, stand by on roof if needed.

[firstin312]

Chief, yes I agree with the transitional, looking at the pic the crew is still getting dressed, with no line near by as of yet. The color of the smoke and the amount of smoke, this is going to lite off real soon. Cool it down first from the exterior and then try to go offensive with it, but wait and see after your ready to go what has happened. I have an issue with this vent enter search concept, I was always taught that vent, enter , search is a quick one room check when you saw someone in the window for example, like a bedroom, you then vent enter and search for that victim in that room, closing the door to that room to protect you and the crew, this is a quick check of that room. Now if you have a victim and you need to find him or her that is a search and rescue, with proper lines backing you up, and that is also a decision made on the conditions of that fire, there is some heavy smoke and if they are on the second floor they are more then likely already gone, and if it lites off before you can get ready to go in they are gone and there is nothing you can do for them...

[papacheese]

firstin312 said:

Chief, yes I agree with the transitional, looking at the pic the crew is still getting dressed, with no line near by as of yet. The color of the smoke and the amount of smoke, this is going to lite off real soon. Cool it down first from the exterior and then try to go offensive with it, but wait and see after your ready to go what has happened. I have an issue with this vent enter search concept, I was always taught that vent, enter , search is a quick one room check when you saw someone in the window for example, like a bedroom, you then vent enter and search for that victim in that room, closing the door to that room to protect you and the crew, this is a quick check of that room. Now if you have a victim and you need to find him or her that is a search and rescue, with proper lines backing you up, and that is also a decision made on the conditions of that fire, there is some heavy smoke and if they are on the second floor they are more then likely already gone, and if it lites off before you can get ready to go in they are gone and there is nothing you can do for them...

The reason for my posting was your response of "Offensive"....this (IMHO) is most definitely NOT a "Charge!" type of situation, but one in which you arrived in that awkward time period between smoldering and flashover...that fire was very much in a dynamic state at the moment the picture was taken....it takes little imagination to picture the damn thing lighting off a minute or two afterwards, just as the crew would theoretically be making the stairs. Not a good situation to be in as many of the forum brothers and sisters can attest.

In an earlier thread, someone asked: "Then should all fires be considered as Transitional in the beginning?"

My intitial answer would be: Yes, until it shows me more of itself or I have enough information and confidence to switch to Offensive mode.

Almost everyone who has participated in this series laments the inability to do a 360...which is not only commendable, but a very good indication of size-up expertise...in other words, remain skeptical until ALL the facts are in...and since we very rarely ever have ALL the facts, default to caution until you do.

[1900]

Offensive...its not that bad yet, possiblity of victims trapped.

E-1 in-service with an 1 3/4" to Div 2...I would make sure those vented in the front are knocked out before we went in, hopefully the fire will show its face...they can search as they go...

E-2 reverse lay out to the hydrant...they can start a search on Div 1 and have the back up line on the stairs...

Someone should throw a couple ladders if they can...

L-1 can throw ladders if not done and go to the roof when they get there and get it opened up.

If crews havent got it...pull the 2nd alarm and the crews better get to the adjacent home...