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Post by 3105 on Dec 18, 2007 5:32:48 GMT -5
  A dwelling very similar to something most of us can easily find in our local. Let's assume the following: 1) This is what the IC or first engine sees upon arrival 2) The neighbors aren't certain if anyone is home or not. 3) The police have been unable to verify #2 Make the call: Offensive, Transitional, or Defensive, then explain your choice and give tactical specifics: line choice and position, tasks assigned, and concerns that would make you switch strategic modes. Do you see anything in the picture that bothers you? |
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hp4l
Division Supervisor 
Remember Your Roots
Posts: 600
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Post by hp4l on Dec 18, 2007 7:09:19 GMT -5
It appears everything is up on the second floor. Get in there with a 1 3/4" line and some hooks and a search team. Get a primary search done ASAP. Appears to be more smoke than fire right now. We need to get the place opened up. The shrubbery looks like it is going to impead our access to the dwelling. They need to be removed to get to the windows and the roof. The fence on the D side might be in the way for crews as well. A good 360 needs to be done by the first arriving and the RIT team.
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Post by WebBoss on Dec 18, 2007 7:44:44 GMT -5
This is the house owned by "The Knights Who Desire A Shrubbery" and that in itself bothers me.
What else that bothers me is the Power Wires, then the old TV Aerial on the roof. They could both become interesting hazards as this progresses.
2 1 3/4 lines up to division 2, hit it good and open it up. This one should go out fairly quick.
Just your typical 50's and 60's little house.
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riverlinetk
Division Supervisor
Training Aide
Posts: 49
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Post by riverlinetk on Dec 18, 2007 7:44:57 GMT -5
1 ½ story brick with fire on div. 2 venting on D side. Gray smoke from rest of roof. Div 1 looks clear at this time.
Need to vent the B portion of the main roof. Search starting on div.2 closest to fire and working outward and downward. Keep in mind fire has already vented itself in a portion of the structure. 1 ¾ or 2” to the second floor. Ladders to the roof and div. 2 windows. Get crews inside to open up on div 2, looks like there could be a lot of void spaces as noted by the different roof layers. Secure a back-up hand line and get a rit in place. Brick structure so it’s going to hold a lot of heat. Note: electrical hazards present on side D, with direct fire onto lines looking like a possibility.
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hp4l
Division Supervisor
Remember Your Roots
Posts: 600
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Post by hp4l on Dec 18, 2007 7:53:41 GMT -5
Another side note. If they don't maintain their exterior property, what does the inside of their house look like? Watch for clutter and other obstructions. Could be a pack rat living in there. This may go from offensive to defensive if we can't get in there.
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JDub
Forum Assistant Chief
Firefighter
Posts: 192
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Post by JDub on Dec 18, 2007 8:46:28 GMT -5
Get in there to do a primary search. Also 1 3/4 to the 2nd divsion with hooks to pull the ceilings and knock the fire down. Ground ladders to the windows for egress options.
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Post by thelurker on Dec 18, 2007 9:43:06 GMT -5
This is the house owned by "The Knights Who Desire A Shrubbery" For those of you who's heads Sean just zoomed over, they are formerly known as the "Knights who say Nee" |
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Post by voyager9 on Dec 18, 2007 9:53:27 GMT -5
We are now the Knights who say "Ekky-ekky-ekky-ekky-z'Bang, zoom-Boing, z'nourrrwringmm".
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Post by Kramer on Dec 18, 2007 9:56:52 GMT -5
hey, i might be young, but monty python is the truth...
anyway, im sending 4 teams in, one with an 1 3/4 for attack, one with an 1 3/4 for backup, a team for search, then a team to open up inside. as always have the RIT ready, and throw ladders...things could go south really quickly depending on the fire load like hp4l addressed
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ENG27SQ
Division Supervisor
MS Paint Guru
Posts: 653
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Post by ENG27SQ on Dec 18, 2007 10:01:45 GMT -5
3 1 3/4 teams. 2 in service and 1 team to open up and get/check the extensions. And throw ladders, quick. This thing looks like it could change course any second.
This looks like it could get hairy really quick.
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Post by thelurker on Dec 18, 2007 10:15:21 GMT -5
I like the 1-3/4s and hooks in service on divisions 1 and 2 like everyone is saying, I would also like to see a 2-1/2 at least dry stretched to the front door, if not the base of the stairs...just to be on the side of safety. I have been to a few fires in cape cods, and I don't like them. Real tight second floor and lots of concealed voids can sometimes get kinda hairy.
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riverlinetk
Division Supervisor
Training Aide
Posts: 49
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Post by riverlinetk on Dec 18, 2007 10:50:30 GMT -5
I would love to see the 2 1/2 stretched and charged, and USED. BUT, for some reason it's very hard to overcome an 1 3/4 most places because it's just the common practice. 2 1/2 smooth bore tip can put some fire out, and open up your void spaces for you too!!
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Post by WebBoss on Dec 18, 2007 10:54:06 GMT -5
My only issue would be the manuverability of the 2.5" line. Not disagreeing with any other points you made there though.
2" would work well...
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Post by 3105 on Dec 18, 2007 11:19:19 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly with everything that's been written here, but no one used the magic word...so I'll Make the Call: "Offensive", or in the parlance of our profession: "Get Your %^&*$ Ass in There and Get It!"
As the resident Reading Smoke geek, I'm looking past that bright orange and yellow stuff towards the B side of the roof. The smoke issuing from the eaves and shingles has lots of pressure behind it, obviously heat driven although it could be a very good indicator that the attic is chopped up into several separate rooms.....if that's the case, let's hope the B side attic room doesn't decide to light off just as the crew is coming up the top of the steps. The smoke color (light) and density (moderate) tells me we have a bit of time before that happens. Remember: flames tell us where the fire is now...smoke tells us where it will be five minutes from now (lecture concluded)
To be perfectly truthful, I'm borderline between 1 3/4 and 2 1/2 despite my motto. In this particular case (an active fire in a small Cape Cod), I'm leaning more towards the swiftness and manueverability of an 1 3/4 than overwhelming punch of a 2 1/2 .....the faster we get some wet stuff going, the faster this thing will settle down to manageble proportions.
Judging from that B roof smoke, a backup line is not only mandatory, but better be in position at the foot of the stairway protecting the attack dudes....it could be that close depending.
I think several of you mentioned "voids" and "hairy"....which echo my sentiments exactly. My personal philosophy is this: nothing is ever exactly as I see it or picture it...always assume there's something potentially ugly lurking in the background.
Also another consideration in these types of homes: knee walls in the attic finished areas...or "horizonal balloon frames".
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1900
Forum Captain
Posts: 103
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Post by 1900 on Dec 19, 2007 0:54:02 GMT -5
Sorry got in late on this one...
I would say were going in, due to the possibilty of people trapped...
two 1 3/4's to Div 2...I wouldnt send in anymore then I had to...the smoke is really beggining to look bad...That 2nd floor is gonna be f'in hot...The roofs are concerns lots of void spaces, not to mention pry hoding fire your not going to be readliy able to get to...
The 2 1/2 would def knock the fire down, but I think you'd have some touble getting it up the stairs then operating it once your up there...alot would depend on your crew and operator...but I would rather get up there quick and do what I had to do, I think the 2 1/2 would slow you down...I agree with having it stretched, truthfully, if you dont have your A or B+ team your not gonna get this one...
The vegetation is an obvious concern...Ive been on fires like this...in hind sight..additional companies in the manpower pool should be cutting these down and gettting them outta the way...
The fence could be an issue as well, the RIT could work on that, it wouldnt take much to get that down..
Its kind of big house if you look at it, and not any windows on div 2...so you cant throw ladder (honestly when they bail there pry coming down the stairs) but also with no windows no way for egree or ways to do ov work to get some heat out quick....
And of cours ethe electric lines... the Engine may be in a bad spot if the primarys fall...however the Engines in a good spot for the deck gun...
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Post by thelurker on Dec 19, 2007 10:27:30 GMT -5
Its kind of big house if you look at it, and not any windows on div 2...so you cant throw ladder (honestly when they bail there pry coming down the stairs) but also with no windows no way for egree or ways to do ov work to get some heat out quick.... Correction brother, 2 windows on Div 2, B-side (pic 1 just behind the chimney) and D-side (pic 2 to the right of the telephone pole) |
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1900
Forum Captain
Posts: 103
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Post by 1900 on Dec 19, 2007 22:02:49 GMT -5
Sorry, I did see the windows my points was very limited windows...
The window on the D side has/had fire coming out of it...
And the one on the B side is in a limited access area...
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