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Post by 3105 on Dec 7, 2007 11:02:32 GMT -5
 Read THIS smoke....it's telling us a lot about what's happening and more importnatly, what is ABOUT to happen. Pick your strategy: O, T, or D |
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Post by FirstDue312 on Dec 7, 2007 18:47:35 GMT -5
Being a rook, I'm not too sure if my read is right. But judging by the volume, density, and color, this thing looks like it wants to flash pretty soon. The thick black smoke looks relatively ugly to me and the smoke pushing out of the eaves and shingles leads me to believe that D1 wants to flash. Crews probably should have vertically ventilated before they made entry due to the fact this things looks like its about to flash. That being said, if they did that it would be transitional towards offensive. However, because it appears they didn't, transitional towards defensive because it looks like its about to flash.
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Post by voyager9 on Dec 7, 2007 23:28:24 GMT -5
Yup. Get it opened up before it goes.. If you get get it vented, then go get it.
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Post by 3105 on Dec 8, 2007 6:39:52 GMT -5
The term for the ugly crap spewing out the door is "black fire", an extremely fuel-rich and hot mixture that as Jon points out is a classic pre-flashover indicator.
The "compartment" is about to rip....so to me, there's really only one prudent action plan here: stay outside, set up your lines, then encourage the damn thing to light off by venting everything possible. Those two Div A windows need to be broken - NOW, as well as any on B or D as applicable.
Take a close look at the picture...I mean a REALLY close look and imagine what the conditions are like ten or fifteen feet inside that door. In all probability, the ceiling temps are spiking somewhere around 1600 degrees and the "box" is steadily absorbing all that heat.
Exactly what's left in there to "save"?
At some point...in my estimation less than five minutes, the box will become saturated and radiate the heat back into everything occupying that space....with a resulting "whoosh".
Again, what will you save... the sofa? The rug? Grandma's picture on the mantle?
I don't think so....
My call? Transitional with a shift to either of the other two modes depending on how much of the structure becomes involved after the "whoosh". Voyager is 1000% on target: exercise the patience needed to properly ventilate and wait for further developments.
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Post by WebBoss on Dec 8, 2007 6:55:10 GMT -5
IMHO, this is one of those jobs where you put a good size line just inside the door - no more then 3 feet. Vent the window to the left of the front door (to the right and the door would be in the way). Once the window is vented, the smoke will most likely ease up some as it will have a better means of getting out, thus "thinning" the mixture and offering the crews a better chance of getting in. By being off by the door during the vent, if the smoke begins to ignite, the line is right there to knock it down and back, and follow it to the room it all came from. It's kind of like fire service cat and mouse.
While I agree with 3105 100% about the smoke situation, in my experiance 90% of the time with creative venting you can do one of two things...
1 - thin the mixture of flammables in the smoke and enviroment by adding more air and reducing the density of the smoke itself
2 - draw the smoke away from the interior operating crews so they can get a better access to the room of origin and do their job.
From the looks of things, this is probably a room with some extension at the most. Anything more and there would be "breathing" smoke with visable fire. As long as the structure is intact, which there is no visable indicators to make me think otherwise, I say do some creative vent work and go in and get it. Of course be safe about it, but I always preferred to keep it in the room it started in if I can, not the whole house.
Again, not trying to disagree, just sharing a different mindset I guess.
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Post by voyager9 on Dec 8, 2007 9:04:15 GMT -5
Voyager is 1000% on target: exercise the patience needed to properly ventilate and wait for further developments. To give credit where credit is due.. FD312 said it first. |
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JDub
Forum Assistant Chief
Firefighter
Posts: 192
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Post by JDub on Dec 8, 2007 23:06:27 GMT -5
Open up the roof. It looks like it is going to flash. If you open the roof the smoke can vent through there and possibly increase visibility. If you have to use exterior operations to hit the fire through the vent holes to darken it down enough to get inside. THEN GET IN THERE AND GET IT!
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cheeseunit31
Probationary Forum Member
The cheese family
Posts: 16
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Post by cheeseunit31 on Dec 11, 2007 0:52:46 GMT -5
VERTICAL VENTILATION!!!!! get the truck to the roof asap. open it up, get the heat out, then get the hose jockeys in there to do there stuff. I agree it looks like a flash over is about to occur, but can be prevented if all is a coordinated attack.
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