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Post by 3105 on Dec 2, 2007 6:55:02 GMT -5
 Make The Call...... |
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JDub
Forum Assistant Chief
Firefighter
Posts: 192
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Post by JDub on Dec 2, 2007 7:19:00 GMT -5
360
You can see smoke coming from the rear so 360.
The smoke is heavy, but gray. I would send a 2 1/2 inside and find the fire and knock the crap out of it. Hopefully you will find it easily and quickly and have no problems but I can see it going south if someone doesn't get in there quick enough.
There is also a van in the driveway. There might be a life safety issue. Yet again, a 360 will help in this aspect so you can ask neighbors, cops, and/or the resident if anyone is still inside.
I say offensive with the chance of transitional to defense.
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hp4l
Division Supervisor 
Remember Your Roots
Posts: 600
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Post by hp4l on Dec 2, 2007 20:05:10 GMT -5
I think the snow plays the biggest role in this operation. Getting around to do a 360 will be delayed due to the snow possibly holding you up at the fence on the B side and the D side may be similar. The snow has also added some weight to the roof, so roof ops will be impeaded. I'd get in there with 2 - 1 3/4" lines to find the fire. Get it opened up as fast and safe as you can too. Bring in extra manpower to assist with frozen lines and equipment and to rotate crews.
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Post by 3105 on Dec 3, 2007 6:08:04 GMT -5
Either it was a busy weekend or the Make The Call series is getting stale...let me know so I don't overstay my welcome.
OK..here's my read:
Weather most definitely has an impact on size-up, not only in the ways Jim mentioned (which were all very valid) but from the perspective of "reading" the smoke, which will tend to be lighter in color and moving differently due to the cold temperature. Another weather-related factor to consider is delayed response - it may take an additional few minutes to assemble the minimum number of personnel needed to make an organized attack. To me, time is a critical factor from several perspectives:
1) How long has this been burning BEFORE I got here?
2) How long will it take to get everyone here, set up, and ready to rock and roll? Just arriving on location isn't enough - you have to allow additional time to stretch supply and hand lines, get ground ladders, pull out a pike pole, fire up the TIC, put on your mask...it all adds up and must be factored into your decision-making matrix.
3) To me, The "Twenty Minute Rule" took effect the moment the fire started, not when I arrived.
Based on what I see in the picture and assuming there's no delayed response, I going to call Offensive. The smoke is telling me that the fire is on Division 1, probably towards the back of the home OR in the basement coming up the stairway into Div 1. Density and velocity appear to be medium, indicating this is heat-driven smoke; the light color but steadily thickening volume means the fire is deep seated and may not be open burning - yet.
Standard Offensive tactics now apply: Attack, Back-Up, and Vent crews. Coordinate ventilation with Attack line advancement. Hopefully a 360 will tell you where to pop a window.
All this being said, there's still that little nagging doubt in the back of my head about the basement; this is where timely communication to the Ops officer becomes critical. If the Attack crew reports they can't find the fire on Division 1, I'm changing my stance to Transitional because basement fires are a whole 'nother animal. That does NOT mean I'm pulling the crews out, but instead that I want them to reposition themselves for a different kind of situation with an entirely different set of hazards. By openly announcing a change to Transitional, every firefighter with a radio or within listening distance should then automatically change their mind-set and be more cautious and skeptical about what they see.
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Post by WebBoss on Dec 3, 2007 9:35:21 GMT -5
Busy, Busy weekend... The "Make the Call" series is fantastic. I've received several comments about what can be learned from these threads.
As for this one, I agree with you 100%. During the 360 I would be checking for basement access points. Another tell-tale sign about a basement fire in the snow would be the melting of the snow around the basement walls and/or the windows. In older homes, you may actually see smoke wisps from where the electric drop and gas feeds go through the foundation walls. Just little tid bits to take note of when doing the all important walk around.
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Post by 3105 on Dec 3, 2007 12:25:21 GMT -5
Busy, Busy weekend... The "Make the Call" series is fantastic. I've received several comments about what can be learned from these threads. As for this one, I agree with you 100%. During the 360 I would be checking for basement access points. Another tell-tale sign about a basement fire in the snow would be the melting of the snow around the basement walls and/or the windows. In older homes, you may actually see smoke wisps from where the electric drop and gas feeds go through the foundation walls. Just little tid bits to take note of when doing the all important walk around. |
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Post by 3105 on Dec 3, 2007 12:27:18 GMT -5
Another "stream of consciousness" thought: situations like this really tax an out-of-shape firefighter, who is not only adding fifty pounds to his/her over-stressed frame, but trudging through that snow only further increases the cardio loading.
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Post by FirstDue312 on Dec 3, 2007 13:54:01 GMT -5
Seeing the smoke from Division 1 on this fire and seeing smoke in the rear brought a side note to mind. It's Christmas season, those pine trees sure burn hot as all hell and are a big fire hazard as are those candle lights in the windows!
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