High Pressure?

[tootall]

Sorry Jim I had too go here...

What is everyones thoughts on using High pressure lines for firefighting.

In my opinion high pressure has only two places in the Fire service today. Ship board firefighting and for high rises boxes.

High pressure is used on ships where there are many compartments. You shoot the stream into the compartment and slam the door behind you. The miniature droplets of water expand into steam causing the fire to go out.

Many large cities use high pressure wagons as a way to get water up to higher floors. FDNY and Chicago has quite a bit of these high pressure engines.

No bashing just some education and some thoughts from the other side of the coin.

[3105]

Craig: define "high pressure"....the units in the city are needed to overcome the friction loss in multi-story hi rise standpipes, which is different (I assume) than what you're describing for shipboard application. Since I know absolutely NOTHING about marine firefighting techniques, clue me in.

[hp4l]

Interesting topic. The HP in my screen name is just a way to remember where I came from. When I hear high pressure, I immediately think of Medford. I can see it used on brush fires, always worked fine for us. I don't think it should be used in a structure fire, but what do you do if it's all you have with possible victims trapped?

[ENG27SQ]

I saw about 7 or 8 rigs in Wildwood with High Pressure Pumps.

Someone educate me on the principle and use of the HP pumps please.

[JDub]

I have never had the chance to use true high pressure.....However when it comes to structure fires high pressure should be left at the station. I don't want to get steamed and I am sure my brothers don't either. I say if a department has a use for HP then thats fine.

[3105]

Gentlemen: correct me if I err.....

The principle of high pressure firefighting was to introduce a relatively small volume of water at a very high pressure (I think as much as 800 psi) into a closed compartment, thereby creating a large volume of steam to snuff out the fire. I was actually taught this method back at fire school in the 70's....the idea was you were supposed to punch a hole in the wall of the fire room, shove the high pressure nozzle into it, then let er rip. I was only half joking in an earlier post when I said you needed four guys on the line because of the tremendous back pressure...the damn thing had a considerable kick as I recall.

Jim...you had far more experience with this than me...is the above correct?

Also, for the record, back when I was taught to use a fog nozzle for attack, we were told to stay OUTSIDE of the fire room, thereby NOT getting steamed. In the continuing controversy over smoothbore versus fog, someone always points out that you could get steam burns using a fog...which would be correct if you were dumb enough to be in the fire room when you opened up. We were taught to open the fire room door a little, open the nozzle towards the ceiling, then CLOSE the door to allow the resulting steam to extinguish the fire. Somewhere along the line someone got the bright idea of crawling into the room and opening the line.....not a good idea.

[hp4l]

Let me first start off by stating that I am no expert in high pressure. I have never used it to fight a structure fire and I rarely pumped with it. It is around 800 psi. 2517 used to be first out for structures, when you were allowed to ride the back step. 3105, are you the only one on here to experience that? The engines, one became the squrt, had high pressure as well. You basically put the fire out with less water by steaming it. Eventually times changed and no more riding the back step and no more fighting fire with high pressure. I am going to talk to some of the older members that had experience with it and get back to the guys that are interested.

[3105]

"3105, are you the only one on here to experience that?"

<Glancing around at other forum members and shaking my head> Uh, yeah....I suppose so.

Ah....riding the back step....wind in your hair, bugs in your teeth...dodging tree limbs and going airborne at railroad tracks! Getting dressed while in motion...one hand for yourself while wriggling the other into a sleeve of a stiff canvas jackets. Sitting in the hosebed, pulling on boots that were two sizes too small...crouching under the hosebed cover during driving rainstorms. <Deep sigh> Those were the days, my boys......

One of the few advantages of being old....LOL

Another thing about the high pressure equipment: the nozzle looked like a Tommy gun...two handles, both of which were needed to hold onto the damn thing....and the special hose was (as memory serves) smaller than a booster line in diameter. The actual amount of water used was relatively little (another advantage) since it was atomized into tiny droplets by the 800+ psi pressure. Supposedly it worked best in a closed compartment fire so that the steam expanded expotentially and saturated everything on fire.

Anyone remember the next thing in roof ventilation called the "Jet Axe"?

That little gem was essentially a satchel charge which, after pulling the pin and throwing it onto the roof, blew up to create a ventilation hole.....and oh, by the way, also INCREASED the fire. Those of you familiar with the Move debacle in Philly saw the police use a variant that day.

Needless to say the Jet Axe was never a big seller....can you imagine anyone using it today? Boggles the mind!

[hp4l]

After talking to some guys it sounds like the high pressure was really best suited for room and contents fires. Crews would go in with 2 lines and hit the fire, basically steaming it. Worked good on smaller fires it sounds like. Not suggested for larger fires. It worked back then, but times have changed.

[Anger Management]

The UK is known for using High Pressure Pumps for firefighting.

www.cbc-firepumps.co.uk/index.html

www.firetactics.com/

I think they would work great for overhaul, or at an incident that had a deep seated fire.

[shader101]

we had a HP unit 1953 international/bruco hale pump when i was in cc633 its where it belongs now in a museam, next to the cemox leather lung, rubber coats and tin hats, hardyguns,ect by the time i joined there it was used for brush fires only good penetration not much water and blew the shit everwhere, my guess from listening to the oldtimers back then when fire loads in sfd's wheren't what we have today and their big point for whatever reason" it would blow thru plaster and lath" i can say when the line blows and your near it smarts good