Make The Call #2

[3105]

Fires such as this pose strategic and tactical challenges for both IC's as well company officers and firefighters.

I've asked before but haven't had much response back....I'm trying to refine my "Offensive-Transitional-Defensive" model and would like everyone's call and why they think that way.

There's lot to consider looking at this picture.....personnel, water, safety....let's get some discussion going, especially you younger firefighters...you're the future! Who, what, when, why, and how...

[WebBoss]

3105 - I think this one is actually a little easy.

I would stick that tower right in the Div 2/Side A window and douche the hell out of it, them move up and over to the roof division to knock down whats left.

After that, check the integrity of the structure, and if safe enough to do so, commit a very few guys to mop up the remaining hot spots.

I guess this is "Transitional"

For those who are a little more daring...

A well placed 2.5" smoothbore up the Div 2 stairs and a couple of well supplied 1 3/4" smoothbores to get around quickly and knock the snot out of it. (not recommended for the weak at heart )

[hp4l]

Call me weak, but I would go defensive on this one. What are we going to save? Division 2 and the roof are gone. The risk is far too high for a building that is just going to be knocked down when we are done. Perhaps with a good knock from the exterior, we might be able to go in and try to save the arts and craft store but is it worth it?

[JDub]

I am going to respond to this as if it was my department's apparatus was responding. Also mind you this we based on the perfect world that all the trucks got there in a reasonable quick response.

I would stick to a defensive attack below is what I would do with my apparatus.

Engine 2012's crew would arrive first being the duty engine and would be using a 2 1/2 in that double window on Division 2; A side to darken it down. Tower 2025 would be on the D side using the ladder pipe to try to hold the fire and also darken the fire. Engine 2021 would be on the Bravo side with their 2 1/2 darkening the fire through the windows. It seems like there are multiple windows on the B side so I would have Rescue 2013 assisting them with additional hand lines. If we had to lay in and I could choose an engine it would be Engine 2011 our pipeline tuck (according to BC Chiefs). Depending on access in the rear of the building I would place Ladder 2415's ladder pipe in service to help 2025 darken the fire. Once the fire is darkened down I would establish a RIT team and then I would send one hose team into Division 1 to see if there was any way they could even attempt to get up to Division 2. If they felt it was safe and they were capable of making the second floor then maybe. However, that is only if the fire was darkened down to the point of extinguishment.

[thelurker]

WHAT R U SAVING??? Come on jim...read the sign "Chinese Body Work"....thats a washy washy!!!....who else is gonna love you long time....LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[3105]

hp4l said:

Call me weak, but I would go defensive on this one. What are we going to save? Division 2 and the roof are gone. The risk is far too high for a building that is just going to be knocked down when we are done. Perhaps with a good knock from the exterior, we might be able to go in and try to save the arts and craft store but is it worth it?

OK, PC opinion time: Jim, your answer (IMHO) is 1000% correct and DOES NOT need to be prefaced with an apology. Yes, aggressive is good...when circumstances dictate, but this building is essentially shot. Our culture dictates that anything less than an interior attack makes us wimps...as Colonel Morgan used to say on M*A*S*H: "Meadow Muffins!"

It's like being handed a hammer, five nails, and three pieces of wood and being told to build a house: can't be done.

Remember: we did not set the fire, design and construct the building, or do whatever incredibly stupid activity that caused this 2 1/2 story dumpster to rapidly oxidize. All we have to work with is what you see in the picture...the smart IC, like a military officer, knows when to cut his losses and live to fight another day.

Couple of things I picked up looking at the picture:

1) the overhead wires pose a problem for that tower's placement

2) An aerial stream is an absolute necessity

3) Depending on positioning, water supply, and a fair amount of good luck, the right side of the building could be salvaged...maybe.

4) Notice the Div 2 windows on the right side..the party wall is still somewhat intact, although no doubt the attic area will be untenable.

5) Building design indicates lots of void spaces for the fire to spread through...an interior crew has a better than average chance of getting surprised on Div 2.

The only thing that will work now is a massive infusion of wet stuff in hopes of knocking down the bulk before it spreads too much. Like Sean, I'm leaning towards Transitional until further developments are seen....if the fire gets knocked, a 2 1/2 in the craft store; if not, call "Defensive" and move the troops back beyond the collapse zone.