FF Falls in Pool

[3105]

Jim C sent along the following:

"Got an email from the secret list today, sure you got it too, about a FF that feel into an indoor pool while operating at a dwelling fire. Have you ever come across anything like that in the 31st? Thought it was interesting with the houses nowadays."

Actually, it's more than possible here in the Land of Huge Dwellings....I can think of a couple of indoor pools I've come across at calls, which then begs three questions:

1) What are the chances of someone falling in and possibly getting entangled?

2) Does our SCBA work as SCUBA?

3) If so, how the *&^%&# to you teach that??

Need to ponder this one...I seem to remember an article somewhere that actually addressed this topic

[hp4l]

I guess the first thing would be finding out which houses, if any, in your district can pose this threat. I know most towns have a hard enough time preplanning businesses, so finding out this info may be difficult. And if you do find out, how do you make sure all members and mutual aid find out?

[JDub]

I guess if the paks do work as SCUBA then one would have to find an old pak and put it on and go swimming....

[WebBoss]

Several years ago I attended a drill with another department and they experimented with a Scott 2.2 SCBA and a swim club. Once the regulator was in the water about 3 feet or so, it hung open.

The regulators work in a principle where the diaphram and it's components work to over come atmospheric pressure to allow the wearer to inhalate. Obviously, once the water weight starts pussing against the diaphram it's changing the atmospheric pressure. (This is the same principle that causes the SCBA to hang a little bit when the moisture freezes inside the regulator on cold days)

So, now that my undergrad physics of SCBA class is done, under normal circumstances, an SCBA under water should cause the regulator to hang open and give a constant supply of air. Now this is going to depleate the bottle rapidly, but hopefully you'll have enough air to get out of the pool.

There used to be a VHS video from many years ago when bunker gear first really got popular about how to float and save yourself if you ever fall into a pool. 3105... do you remember this one? It taught about rolling onto your back, pulling your knees up to your chest and holding your helmet on your chest.

Another pool hazard, now that it's winter time... Frozen/snow cover pools in back yards. That I've seen happen... and almost have first hand knowledge of it.

[chief3102]

I for one had the unfortunate pleasure one night in Delran of almost falling in a pool outside of a house. Working fire, 313 was RIT. We arrived and staged out front, as i was doing a walk around the building, I entered the rear yard, did a quick scan of the dark yard and totally missed the black cover over an inground pool. As I was cheking the rear which was showing fire from the eaves, I began bouncing like walking on a trampoline with water up to almost my knees. Now a few of the firefighters thought that this was hilarious and some even commented "i guess Chief's really do walk on water" but I can honestly say that the experience sucked. I can only imagine a cheap cover caving in and being totally submerged in a swimming pool surrounded by a tarp while wearing full turnout gear and a SCBA.

[RngrVnc33]

Pretty scary , I never really thought of this possibility until the email from TSL. One of the benefits of riding the AMBO is getting to see the layout and floor plans of quite a bit more occupancies in town then say the FD. I know riding in the Shade Ive come across the inground pool in the basement and the occasional former gunsmith with a half dozen kegs of gun powder.....

-Vince-

[3105]

This isn't a thread hijack but the pending County software program can answer the question about informing incoming companies...provided of course that the requisite effort is put into it. The Occupany module can be set up with the information for that address..."pool in Division C". If your first alarms are granted access to see your Occupancy data, they can read this on the way in.

Barring that, the best way to ensure that everyone is aware of the situation is to make certain a reliable ISO is appointed early and given free reign to do a safety size-up. In this case, I would immediately safety-tape the pool to draw their attention.

Again, the "outside to inside" size-up approach works best here: scan a wide view of the entire scene first, then slowly move your field of vision inward towards the fire...as 3102 mentioned, look for the obvious hazards that will encountered first before they even get to a dangerous place...overhead wires, pool, large propane tanks for the pool heater, a vicious dog, most likely exposure to light off next....etc.

I do vaguely remember the save yourself pool exercise....hmmmm.

Sean's point about the regulator is right on target and answered the question - this is the kind of good stuff we need to spread around!

[tootall]

When I was in Probie school in Anne Arundel one day they loaded us all onto a bus and took us to the pool...with our gear...as Sean stated once you go underwater the pack will go into free flow.

But you need to get it off your back!!! You will sink! Get it off and hug it...at the same time if your too far away from the pools egde or cant get out or feel like your going to drowned get all your gear off and turn it into a giant raft. Zip your coat up and try to get some air into it..you can float for some time with that...also your rubber boots will float as well and can be used for a life jacket.

DO I HEAR POOL PARTY IN THE SUMMER? Who wants to do it?

[thelurker]

I'm in if we can find a place and a time when I'm off

[3105]

Hmmm...if we get our Fire Grant, that will leave us with a few old SCBA's.....hmmmmm....one of my CL's has a really nice pool too....hmmmm

[RngrVnc33]

"P-Town" used to combine its yearly pool training and the company pool party in the same evening in the township pool..... good stuff!

[havingfun]

as diver i read a few rescue and recovery reports, there is a lot of injuries and deaths from turnout gear. you can drown very easy with it on. you have to get it off. it will look for the info and see if i can find the info. as for the pack, the water should not affect the regulator as long as its being used.

[voyager9]

I think the danger from outside in-ground pools is probably greater then indoor pool. The main reason would be that it can be much harder to recognize an in-ground pool especially at night, winter, or when using foam. Outdoor pools also have covers which dramatically increases the entanglement/confusion danger. They are also much more common. Finally, a FF probably won't be using their SCBA when they encounter an outdoor pool. This makes the pack just dead weight. Indoor pools tend to be in their own room with unique characteristics that make them easier to recognize. The FF's are more likely to have their SCBA donned which should get them a few breaths to get past the "OH S"-moment.