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Post by shader101 on Feb 12, 2009 19:52:47 GMT -5
had a alf aerochief 90 and telesquirt 50' , the 90 was ok, a bit training intensive to operate and a beast to place, the 50 was great (pre quint days) the extra 25' would have been nice on all the garden apts there, went the referb route in early 80's of a nyc tl baker 75' mack, tl 58 fdny 1973 serial # 101 from baker, not pretty or fully of idiot lites ,some one must have read "The Rev's" mind, made it into a SMack, great truck to work out of, easy to operate, functional & stable, now we have a LTI it does the job, without a pump its a little more easy to jockey around that some of the giants i have seen,i'll trade it and 2 chiefs cars , to get the baker back,:with the size of the giants in wondering why they never offered all axle steering like the big cranes have.
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Post by cmcollier on Feb 13, 2009 12:15:57 GMT -5
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Post by soon2bfdny on Feb 16, 2009 18:47:35 GMT -5
tower ladder look like they take a little more time to set up then straight stick. not sure why the guy is spraying water at the window from the outside, about midway in the video
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iaff
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Post by iaff on Feb 21, 2009 15:19:43 GMT -5
According to proper definition. They're only 2 towerladders in burlington county. Willingboro's aerialscope, and the second being Delran's Sutphen. Every other ladder with a bucket on it is considered a ladder Tower.
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Reverend
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Post by Reverend on Feb 21, 2009 15:43:43 GMT -5
According to proper definition. They're only 2 towerladders in burlington county. Willingboro's aerialscope, and the second being Delran's Sutphen. Every other ladder with a bucket on it is considered a ladder Tower. This in no way is a knock on Delran FD. But, the 2315 dosnt deserve to be referred to as a tower ladder. It has no where near the capabilities of an Aerialscope in just about all areas of operation. The Aerialscope is often immitated by other manufactures but NEVER duplicated. |
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iaff
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Post by iaff on Feb 21, 2009 15:58:48 GMT -5
It's not about operation, its about design. A Ladder tower is a aerial ladder with a bucket at the end. A towerladder is a bucket with a ladder. The ladder is only designed to be used in an emergency. I don't know about operations of sutphens.People that i have talked said aerialscopes are a little faster, But sutphens are smoother to operate.
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Post by WebBoss on Feb 27, 2009 22:06:38 GMT -5
In Burlington County there is no difference between a Tower Ladder and a Ladder Tower. It's just "Tower."
Having some experiance with both Aerialscopes and Sutphens I can tell you that as a Turntable operator, I'll take the Sutphen anyday. When it comes to flying the bucket, or being the chauffer, I'll take a Scope hands down. I am certainly a fan of the 75' Scopes over the 95's but that mearly for travel and manuverability reasons. However, I can think of quite a few WFD guys that have put 1615 in some great places, but then again, I can say the same for 231 as well. I'm sure the old heads from 161 and 903, as well as 101, can agree that modern technology just isn't as flexiable and workable as the old Mack CF based Scopes.
One of the things that makes a Sutphen better these days is that they are almost as strong, but considerably less weight then the current day scopes. I'm surprised that companies that ran 75' Scopes haven't looked into Sutphen's 75' single axle tower design. Looks like a VERY flexible truck. The bigest drawbacks with a Sutphen are the basket overhang, which they're starting to change, and the inability to work the master streams well off to the sides of the basket.
Personally, I would take either anyday over any Pierce of LTI Tower without hesitation.
Not to sound like a salesman for Sutphen, but they are the only manufacture to never have a catastrpohic failure of a production model aerial device.
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ENG27SQ
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Post by ENG27SQ on Mar 1, 2009 10:28:20 GMT -5
In Burlington County there is no difference between a Tower Ladder and a Ladder Tower. It's just "Tower." Having some experiance with both Aerialscopes and Sutphens I can tell you that as a Turntable operator, I'll take the Sutphen anyday. When it comes to flying the bucket, or being the chauffer, I'll take a Scope hands down. I am certainly a fan of the 75' Scopes over the 95's but that mearly for travel and manuverability reasons. However, I can think of quite a few WFD guys that have put 1615 in some great places, but then again, I can say the same for 231 as well. I'm sure the old heads from 161 and 903, as well as 101, can agree that modern technology just isn't as flexiable and workable as the old Mack CF based Scopes. One of the things that makes a Sutphen better these days is that they are almost as strong, but considerably less weight then the current day scopes. I'm surprised that companies that ran 75' Scopes haven't looked into Sutphen's 75' single axle tower design. Looks like a VERY flexible truck. The bigest drawbacks with a Sutphen are the basket overhang, which they're starting to change, and the inability to work the master streams well off to the sides of the basket. Personally, I would take either anyday over any Pierce of LTI Tower without hesitation. Not to sound like a salesman for Sutphen, but they are the only manufacture to never have a catastrpohic failure of a production model aerial device. Not being a driver/operater or a firefighter whos used a scope or a tower ladder here but I've seen them at work. The 75' scopes hands down were able to get into a much tighter area for placement versus a 95' or a sutphen (due to their overhang much like Sean stated above) Sutphens aren't too common in Burlington County, in fact, other than Delrans T2315 I think thats the only one.. I've heard nothing but great comments about Sutphens for their turntable manageability. Again, like Sean stated above one of its downfalls is the inability to work monitors off the side of the bucket, which I've seen their newer buckets in production (through friends who photograph the factories as a hobby) and you'd be surprised to see what Sutphens got under their sleeves. |
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Post by breakingsomemirror on Mar 2, 2009 10:32:17 GMT -5
As someone who has used an "old school" Baker Scope (Boro's old 1615, not the current Mothership) and a Sutphen (DFD's 2315), I'd have to say it's pretty close. Overall, the 75' Baker is a dream truck. It was easy to set up, manuever and work off of. Granted, it didn't have all the fancy "bells and whistles" that the newer ladders do (anybody seen a new Pierce? You need a server on the truck just to run the electronics on those things!), it really did a fantanstic job. I REALLY hate to admit this, but I'd have to say that the Sutphen does beat even the Mighty Baker Scope in terms of set up and easy of use. It is, by far, the most stable ladder I've ever been on. It's a snap to set up (great design) and being up in the bucket is a dream. Just barely nudges out the Baker in that department. On the downside, I've got to say the rest of the truck is one of the worst designs I've ever seen. The cab is RIDICULOUSLY small, the ladder's on the side thing always is a pain and storing LDH under the tower ladder is a pain in the ass to repack. Driving it with that bucket low on the back is not fun either. Finally, the nozzle design in the bucket is about the worst I've ever seen. If they could figure out how to take the ladder part (minus the low hanging bucket) and outrigger set up and put it on a Mack chassis, I'd probably marry it! Would have to get a much bigger bed though.  Either way, they both still beat the mighty Apollo 105' Seagrave in da 'Sham. There's a reason they only made 8 of them! Biggest POS I've worked with and I've worked with Grumman Arialcats! Have a great day and stay safe everybody. |
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Reverend
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Post by Reverend on Mar 2, 2009 17:34:26 GMT -5
Ahh yes, the mighty Grumman........ I would like to add the Grumman Snorkel to the POS List. The old 2015 what a TERD. "Flush Sound"
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Post by breakingsomemirror on Mar 3, 2009 14:35:04 GMT -5
Ah, good call, Rev! Never had the pleasure of using a snorkel but I've had the misfortune of using several trucks made by Grumman. There's a reason they are now out of business! Scary part is they made airplanes for the military. Ruh roh, Shaggy! ;D
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Post by fireman1190 on Mar 11, 2009 22:15:58 GMT -5
Grumman made some fine trucks over the years. For instance the old 2514, and of course 2524 and 1312 which still serve their towns today. Grumman just doesn't know how to lay out the controls on a pump panel!
I agree that sutphen makes some great ladders. I admit I have little experience with anything else, but they are certainly a stable, dependable working platform. For my department in WV, our 1986 model was bought used from Cape Canaveral, FL. It's in fine shape but lacks high side rails on the ladder. With a ladder only feasible for an escape route, it limits our capability. Bringing victims down from upper floors is certainly hindered. For those situations we plan on lowering the platform to a lower floor where firefighters will take the victims in and assist them down. This is not possible in all cases, however.
Also ours has little compartment space because of where the ground ladders are carried. I agree that the low-hanging bucket makes the vehicle hard to manuever in tight streets, and hard to pack hose. And I agree the nozzle design is very poor.
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